Opposing Thoughts and Practices on Bonsai for Beginners
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ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I was thinking about it a little while ago, and had a realization on timing of technique that might be part of this "no wiring for a couple years" thing.
I have pretty much no trees right now that aren't in early development stages. Wire is of little use for any of them except maybe putting movement into a trunk, but even that can me done in many other ways. I'm about THREE YEARS away from NEEDING to wire for real. I'm at basic trunk and branch structure level on these. I have no need or current intention to do any wiring anytime soon. I'll save that for when I'm working on branches that can't be positioned by other means.
So if you have some crotchety type who does things the same way I do, but has less tact or is more opinionated, they might get a little cross about wiring at all before a certain point.
I am lazy about wiring too. You kind of have to at least shove a spacer above branches that want to be too upright angled before they get too hard to wire at the base later. I used to use lava rocks but it damages the branch collar.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
What makes his videos great in your opinion over other, say.. My, channels?
Would love to learn what makes people watch through his hours long videos
You learn how to speed watch...it's like speed reading, only different.
Oh yes, I’m in two clubs and volunteer at the bonsai collection in Fresno. I’m going to visit a teacher in Chino soon and I’m super excited about that! Also I have a couple other options. Cali is great for bonsai. I’m going to dm you since you are close and toss my ideas around. Thanks!
I think it was more along the lines that when you start practicing Bonsai that you don’t touch wire or do wiring for two years into it. Honestly I can’t even imagine that.
I don’t know if this would work for you but I’ve used wine corks and it doesn’t damage the branches.
Thanks! It’s all good, any post that gets activity where myself and others can learn is fabulous. I’m all in with learning from multiple perspectives. The “fireballs” being thrown, I just duck from
It’s wading through to get the gems of info. My original thought with this post wasn’t about bringing up opposing views on a post though. It was about being a noob who is learning from multiple teachers who are butting heads on how they’re teaching me. My dilemma being respectful to them all and trying to be a peacemaker. So in actuality this post is ironic and is getting long …. But awesome 
Glaucus
Omono
Not sure why this became a huge debate. Going back to 'you should not wire for at least 1 to 2 years', that's only true if you want to be completely sure you do not learn anything about wiring for the first 1 to 2 years. It is true that your individual tree might not benefit from wiring. Wiring without a purpose is pointless for the bonsai itself.
But you can practice wiring on branches you prune of any (non-Bonsai) tree.
You are not going to be engaging with the artistic aspects if you haven't got the basic mechanical and horticultural skills down.
But you can practice wiring on branches you prune of any (non-Bonsai) tree.
You are not going to be engaging with the artistic aspects if you haven't got the basic mechanical and horticultural skills down.
ZombieNick
Shohin
I suspect you are visiting my teacher, if so, you are in for a treat!
That sounds like it has the perfect grab... I will use that thanks!
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I was thinking this as well, in terms of teaching. I know I've had plenty of experiences where I've done more harm than good to a tree trying to wire it, realizing I messed up and trying to undo it, rinse and repeat.
I'm totally that guy who shouldn't wire for the first couple years.
It comes out neat and tidy, and going in the wrong direction while coming from the wrong direction, and I somehow always wind up slipping the bark somewhere and half or all the branch dies anyway.But also what you mentioned about learning the growth and horticulture. Wire is the aesthetics, and even the finer points of aesthetics.
Learning how to direct a tree vs control a tree I'm, on that page. Though I certainly wouldn't tell someone to not give it a go.
D
Deleted member 32750
Guest
I’m subscribed to Bjorn’s platform and Ryan’s and my biggest complain is that his videos are waaaay to long. Bjorn’s videos are short and sweet and to the point.
Your videos are nice btw.
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I'm subscribed now, and he's quickly becoming a favorite.
As a rule I don't run out and subscribe or share anything by people I know personally until I get to it in a state of mind where I know I can be objective about the content. I majored in communications media and PR, so I had allot of friends and family asking me to help them out on things like that. Unfortunately most are of the quality of my sister's graphic novel script that was done in total seriousness but amounted to, "sasquatch gets stoned and defends nature against the evil humans," complete with pop culture quasi mystical philosophy, and every protagonist smoked a weed by the ounce. Generic plot, generic characters, just not great.
Yeah, they're usually REALLY bad, so I've had to start that policy so I'm not misguiding their efforts out of sympathy. Some people don't talk to me any more. I'm ok with it.
I do have to say, though, that even after watching Yelle's videos his voice in my head while reading his posts here still doesn't sound the same, and it messes with me.
PaulH
Omono
I get your point. I ran marathons for years and never managed to break the 3 hour barrier. But that didn't mean I didn't strive to be better. When I stopped improving, it wasn't fun anymore. I think that attitude applies to every pastime.
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I think it's a personality type question.
I'm bad at fishing but I still pay for my license every year because it's fun.
Honestly, I'm bad at most things I do, and I'm the sort that likes to do everything if possible. The reason I'm bad at it all, though, is because I lacked the passion to really push myself in it. Most things are just something I was curious about, so I gave it a go, learned allot, moved on to the next. To put it in simplest terms, I got bored of it eventually, or in some cases learned that it didn't fit me. Motivation to get better was nonexistent.
But some things I keep coming back to, bad at it or not, because I enjoy it. I wanted to be an architect as a teen, but I have no talent for it. I still break those skills from the high school intro class out of the tool box once in a while and enjoy it.
Bonsai is an excellent hobby for this sort of occasional use of a skill. The trees are in no hurry, and 90% of it restrained by the seasons, so it's very easy for someone who enjoys it but for whatever reason isn't insanely passionate about it to keep going just the same as people who tend a flowerbed but aren't entering competitions. Or the way some people will keep goldfish and guppies, but never even entertain the idea of a fancy saltwater aquarium.
The added endeavor takes the fun out of it for some, and for others that is the fun.
Right now the fun part of bonsai for me is learning the horticulture. That requires endeavor, and that's the fun part right now. The aesthetics are so subjective I'm not entirely sure how far I want to take that yet. I'm still fairly new, so I have time to work that out. My trees aren't in a hurry, and neither am I.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Yes! Objective reached!
Dunno.. Here I try to be funny. On videos I try to be knowledgable.
Considering I am neither, that leads to voices in your head I think.
Flowerhouse
Chumono
I think your humor comes through on your videos, too
mapleX
Yamadori
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When I started bonsai (10 years ago) it took me only one growing season to realize that this was not a hobby of the occasional category.
In the first years I suffered more than I had fun logically in perseverance (practice) and in the search for greater knowledge the balance of experience was reaching a fairer level between my expectations and reality.
I'm not one of those people who have fun in failures but in successes, perhaps for that reason I don't find reasons to continue in hobbies if I realize that I won't be able to reach a high level in the discipline.
Honestly, I'm curious to know how you can experience this hobby of bonsai in an "occasional" way for you.
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ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I fully understand everything you're saying here. Your point on the balance between expectation and reality is probably the single most important thing for anyone to learn about anything.
On how bonsai can be of an occasional nature, well, frankly, for me it's not. I must have pushing 30 trees right now of varying needs. I check on them every day. In fact my dog is rather miffed right now that I chose to lie in bed scrolling on BNut in stead of jumping up with the sun to go outside with her and walk the yard. (I was up late on a project.)
But for someone with only a handful of trees and lower expectations of them than you or I have, watering them along with the garden bed is the only pressing matter. They do one or two repots a year, a full styling every few years, some maintenance pruning from time to time in the summer, and the rest is watching trees grow. For someone with a half dozen or less trees who already knows a bit of horticulture or sticks to easy ones, they're only actively engaged part time, even in the summer. They're still engaged enough to call it an actual hobby though. For the person with one or two trees, it's just part of their house plant collection essentially.
