One month of research and I have questions

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Growing out in tubs is a perfectly acceptable method of developing young material into pre-bonsai, to become bonsai. Growing out in tubs is not as rapid as growing in the ground, but has the advantage that the roots are confined in a container, making for less trauma to the root system when it comes time to repot. Also growing in the tub means you don't have to lay on your belly, on the ground to get a good look at the trunk. For myself, being of rotund dimensions, this is very important. If I get down on the ground, it is a major project standing back up.

For maples, the standard landscape nursery method to propagate named cultivars of maples is buy grafting. In general, maples with graft unions, and resulting grafting scars are generally unacceptable for bonsai. So when shopping for Japanese maples, do focus your search for them with bonsai orientated nurseries which will produce the maples by cuttings or air layers. Or only purchase seed grown, no cultivar name maples.

 

[Zach Smith]

Get as many trees as you can comfortably afford and care for, so you don't love them to death. Variety is good. Be prepared to kill plenty, we all do. Learn how to wire. Don't let your expectations get the better of you when growing in tubs to get thick trunks - won't happen for years. Keep on going to meetings, and take as many classes as you can.

 

[rockm]

you're confusing advanced stock with developed trees. They are not the same and stock is more expensive than seedlings, but less than developed trees. Advanced stock is basically a stump dug from a field, possibly with some rudimentary branching. It can take a decade or two off of the development time for seedlings.

It comes form either nursery sources --cut the top 80-90 percent out of a 18 foot or so elm, etc., or they can be dug from the wild.

 

[colley614]

Please!

Of Toads and other Pets

Hopefully this will keep us going thru..... Oh hell no. Show your dogs, frogs, and snakes on a log. Tigers? Chimps!? Horses? Sheep? Sorce

www.bonsainut.com

I was just thinking about how NOT cutting ANY plant now....could lead to so many years saved on development time.

If you figure those tips now, will have generated soooo many new tips in just a couple years.

Try not to cut it!

Sorce

Not removing branches on a juniper when theyre small leaves scars that take forever to heal when the branches get big and have to be removed.

If you have an idea what you want your tree to look like, it doesnt hurt to start it moving in that direction earlier, rather than later.

After much reading and thinking about these two branches I was in two minds and these two replies some up my train of thought.

1. Leave everything to grow to thicken the trunk sooner rather than later and help against reverse taper or.

2. Get these 2 branches off while they and the tree are still small.

In the end after over a week of going over and over it in my head I decided to remove the two thick branches at the base, just above the soil line. I then gave the trunk a wiring to get it in the position I want. My plan now is to leave it alone for a year to grow apart from feeding and watering and removing or adding any wire needed. I feel like I've made the right choice.

 

[leatherback]

I decided to remove the two thick branches at the base

Really? The plant you have there really is just a mature cutting. Leave the twigs branches alone and let it grow for a few years. Just ensure the branches are not to near to eachoter, which would create bulges. But keep lower branches for a bit to create taper. You can wire them in a shape. Let grow and create smal Yins later on.. You need wood to make a tree, I think.

 

[colley614]

Growing out in tubs is a perfectly acceptable method of developing young material into pre-bonsai, to become bonsai. Growing out in tubs is not as rapid as growing in the ground, but has the advantage that the roots are confined in a container, making for less trauma to the root system when it comes time to repot. Also growing in the tub means you don't have to lay on your belly, on the ground to get a good look at the trunk. For myself, being of rotund dimensions, this is very important. If I get down on the ground, it is a major project standing back up.

For maples, the standard landscape nursery method to propagate named cultivars of maples is buy grafting. In general, maples with graft unions, and resulting grafting scars are generally unacceptable for bonsai. So when shopping for Japanese maples, do focus your search for them with bonsai orientated nurseries which will produce the maples by cuttings or air layers. Or only purchase seed grown, no cultivar name maples.

I was looking at a Japanese maple that was about 6 feet tall on an online tree shop. I was thinking it was a nice height to get started but then noticed it had a big dirty graft in the trunk. Which made me think. Do I but it and air layer it? Then which part of the tree do I use? The top will probably take a couple of growing seasons to start growing vigorously from the new roots. The bottom might have completely different foliage to what I wanted. So do I just wait to find a decent tree at my local nursery, or grow from seed. Tough call.

Get as many trees as you can comfortably afford and care for, so you don't love them to death. Variety is good. Be prepared to kill plenty, we all do. Learn how to wire. Don't let your expectations get the better of you when growing in tubs to get thick trunks - won't happen for years. Keep on going to meetings, and take as many classes as you can.

Now I've done what I felt was needed with my juniper I plan on letting it grow out for a season and aim at getting my hands on a Japanese red maple. The Juniper and maple will be the 2 main trees in my collection. Then I wanted to get some smaller projects as practice material. Which will distract me from messing about with my two 'big' projects.

 

[colley614]

Really? The plant you have there really is just a mature cutting. Leave the twigs branches alone and let it grow for a few years. Just ensure the branches are not to near to eachoter, which would create bulges. But keep lower branches for a bit to create taper. You can wire them in a shape. Let grow and create smal Yins later on.. You need wood to make a tree, I think.

The two I removed were big enough that the could have been trunks. I decided that they were too low to be considered for Yin. The rest I'm let grow until the tree is the basic shape and height. The only thing I will do is remove and rewire the trunk. Apart from that I'm on to my maple. (I may buy a small juniper I can shape into a small tree now to keep my fingers away from my big tree)

 

[leatherback]

Have you been to any major show or exhibition of good bonsai ?

I think you are really missing a crucial piece of information: Scale.

Size Matters - Growing Bonsai

How big are bonsai?It is an important question to ask yourself when you start off with bonsai. Because the trees are small, but still fairly big. How big..?

www.growingbonsai.net

 

[rockm]

After much reading and thinking about these two branches I was in two minds and these two replies some up my train of thought.

1. Leave everything to grow to thicken the trunk sooner rather than later and help against reverse taper or.

2. Get these 2 branches off while they and the tree are still small.

In the end after over a week of going over and over it in my head I decided to remove the two thick branches at the base, just above the soil line. I then gave the trunk a wiring to get it in the position I want. My plan now is to leave it alone for a year to grow apart from feeding and watering and removing or adding any wire needed. I feel like I've made the right choice.

You're working at cross purposes. The reduction will slow trunk development, same for wiring. A year isn't going to make any difference. Three might. five will, ten is even better. At this point, you're not working on the top 2/3 of the tree. You're working on the bottom 1/3--everything above that is most likely going to be sacrificed for finer growth down the road. Wiring a tall spindly trunk will get you mostly a tall spindlier trunk with minimal movement even with the wire. Directional pruning is much more effective at inducing movement in the beginning. Future growth will erase the pruning marks...

 

[colley614]

You're working at cross purposes. The reduction will slow trunk development, same for wiring. A year isn't going to make any difference. Three might. five will, ten is even better. At this point, you're not working on the top 2/3 of the tree. You're working on the bottom 1/3--everything above that is most likely going to be sacrificed for finer growth down the road. Wiring a tall spindly trunk will get you mostly a tall spindlier trunk with minimal movement even with the wire. Directional pruning is much more effective at inducing movement in the beginning. Future growth will erase the pruning marks...

Right, I get what you're saying. I was thinking with my next project, a maple, that I would be letting it grow vigorously and then hard pruning it back to achieve the taper and movement. I thought with Juniper it was a case of wiring everything into position and then letting it thicken out. Is this not the case?

 

[colley614]

Have you been to any major show or exhibition of good bonsai ?

I think you are really missing a crucial piece of information: Scale.

Size Matters - Growing Bonsai

How big are bonsai?It is an important question to ask yourself when you start off with bonsai. Because the trees are small, but still fairly big. How big..?

www.growingbonsai.net

I've not been to anything like that yet. I will though. I get the scale thing, or I'm starting to grasp it. Hence me removing the two big branches which were of similar size to the trunk.

 

[leatherback]

Hence me removing the two big branches which were of similar size to the trunk.

But those branches were exactly what you need to grow a trunk. Because, really.. You do not have a trunk yet.

 

[colley614]

But those branches were exactly what you need to grow a trunk. Because, really.. You do not have a trunk yet.

There is plenty more branches in that area that I would deem too big to be considered branches once the tree matures. I just thought that those two really big ones were going to cause a problem long term.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

There is a slow way, and a fast way. You can pick the way which fits your goals and aspirations. Theres nothing wrong with either path. There is a perception that time spent waiting is inherently bad.

 

[colley614]

There is a slow way, and a fast way. You can pick the way which fits your goals and aspirations. Theres nothing wrong with either path. There is a perception that time spent waiting is inherently bad.

I've always believed the saying "A minute in the planning saves 10 minutes in the execution." Though, sometimes the product of a minutes planning maybe to produce a higher quality instead of a higher quantity. I'd like to think that whatever decision I make it teaches me something for the future.

 

[Adair M]

I've always believed the saying "A minute in the planning saves 10 minutes in the execution." Though, sometimes the product of a minutes planning maybe to produce a higher quality instead of a higher quantity. I'd like to think that whatever decision I make it teaches me something for the future.

Except that trees work on an entirely different time scale. You just stated “a minute in the planning...”

For a tree, that would translate to “a year in the planning...”

 

[colley614]

Except that trees work on an entirely different time scale. You just stated “a minute in the planning...”

For a tree, that would translate to “a year in the planning...”

That's exactly the point I'm trying to convey. All those minutes of planning over the space of a year would make for a far better execution.

My whole philosophy behind this Juniper and the maple I want to get is that I want to spend time (in years) developing the trunks on these two. The title of this thread states I've done a month of research, a lot of that was watching YouTube initial stying videos where the artist explains the process of growing the tree to get it to the point of initial styling. That's what I want to do with this tree. Minor adjustments and plenty of vigorous growth. Trust me, if I could put it in the ground I would.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Growing containers must have good drainage. Do yours? Generally compost/nursery soil bad for Bonsai roots. More inorganics needed. Study time before bending is most wise. However should not wait so long wood hardens too much to bend without breaking.

 

[colley614]

Growing containers must have good drainage. Do yours? Generally compost/nursery soil bad for Bonsai roots. More inorganics needed. Study time before bending is most wise. However should not wait so long wood hardens too much to bend without breaking.

I have put a big hole in each corner of the tub. I am attending a repotting class tonight so I'm going to get my monies worth and ask loads of questions about setting the tree up for optimum growth.

I have wired the trunk a little to help it on its way to where I'd like it. As soon as it shows any rigidity the wire is coming off and I'm leaving it to grow. The tree is about 45cm at the moment. I plan on getting another tree to style and waiting for this tree to let me know it's ready for more work.

 

[rockm]

That's exactly the point I'm trying to convey. All those minutes of planning over the space of a year would make for a far better execution.

My whole philosophy behind this Juniper and the maple I want to get is that I want to spend time (in years) developing the trunks on these two. The title of this thread states I've done a month of research, a lot of that was watching YouTube initial stying videos where the artist explains the process of growing the tree to get it to the point of initial styling. That's what I want to do with this tree. Minor adjustments and plenty of vigorous growth. Trust me, if I could put it in the ground I would.

Watching videos on the Internet to learn bonsai is not a great way to learn much. It greatly depends on who is doing the vid. There are quite a few idiots out there with no experience doing "teaching" vids when in fact they're just showing off. At this point, you don't need an artist to explain anything. You need a horticulturalist to explain how the tree is going to grow, as well as the ins and outs of adapting that growth pattern to maximize your care of the tree. "Designing" this tree is about six steps ahead of things at this point for both trees. This is all about trunk development, that first three inches of the tree, the rest is optional.