Non Bonsai tools and stuff for Bonsai

[ShadyStump]

Never thought about using hotel pans (that's what they're frequently called in the food service industry) but they should stand up pretty well for a couple years at least. They're solid stainless, not coated. They do also come pre-perforated, like a colander.
Another thing to consider is the local market value. Those things aren't cheap here in the States. You're just as good paying for the Anderson flats.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Never thought about using hotel pans (that's what they're frequently called in the food service industry) but they should stand up pretty well for a couple years at least. They're solid stainless, not coated. They do also come pre-perforated, like a colander.
Another thing to consider is the local market value. Those things aren't cheap here in the States. You're just as good paying for the Anderson

Anderson flats are not a option . It’s availability . There are 2 warehouse distribution companies . For Anderson flats that supply stores in canada . Both have no stock . And will not have stock until spring 2024 at min . Any new production from Anderson goes to priority customers in the USA . Production is restricted due to difficulty sourcing plastic at Anderson I was told . There are several suppliers in the USA especially on the west coast that have stock . But as I said before international shipping has become insane price wise . So ultimately cheap Anderson flats . Would be very expensive . At least 3 times the price of the pieces total once they were here . So the cost of the food pans is very reasonable here . Compared to other options . Sizing is especially good . At 10 to 15 bucks each . As I said availability of stuff is part of the reason I started this thread . Canadian blogs and message boards are ripe with . Crazy costs if shipping . My Canadian passport is delayed getting renewed ( another Covid gift is government services are heavily backlogged ) as soon as I get it I’m crossing the border and opening a account with. Service providers that give you a American shipping address . Then I can just drive across the border with stuff myself . The border is about 40 minute drive away .

 

[ShadyStump]

Don't you still have to important and customs fees at the border, legally speaking? Still, minus the cost of shipping, might be worthwhile.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Don't you still have to important and customs fees at the border, legally speaking? Still, minus the cost of shipping, might be worthwhile.

If I import something from the USA . I have to pay sales tax and duty on that product . If I cross the border with the product . I pay it at the border . No difference it has to be payed . If I enter the USA personally I am allowed a amount of duty free products . Depending on how long I stay . Normally crossing the border you do so with gas tank empty . Filling in the USA will cover the cost of the trip . A example my daughter purchased bonsai books for a Xmas present for me shipping would have been 9 $ anywhere in the USA . But it was over 85 $ to get them here . Hence the interest ina shipping address in the USA . My wife and I go to New York State about once every 6 months . ( pre Covid ) shopping .

 

[Maiden69]

Most Chinese restaurant trays are cheap 304 stainless. Used as planting trays they will rust but not to the point where they are not useable in your lifetime. The rust is just cosmetic.

So, I'm putting my welder hat on for a minute... there is no cheap 304. What they use is 201 SS, which has some of the properties of the 300 series of stainless, but made with cheaper manganese instead of nickel. Before I got certified as a SS welder I thought the same as you. Almost all of the cheap exhaust sold on ebay as 304 stainless, its just 201. I was sold some welding rods for TIG that were supposed to be 304, but ended up being 201, they behave entirely different when welding. An expensive lesson learned.

Stainless Steel Type 201

Rolled Metal Products is one of the steel industry’s most respected service centers with facilities across North America. We stock Stainless Steel, Nickel Alloys, Aluminum and other Specialty Metals in coil form and also offer toll processing of various metals including: Stainless Steel, Nickel...

rolledmetalproducts.com

Thanks my understanding is 18/8 and 304 are the same product so you have used this . Not concerned about a little rust just don’t want fert and water to eat them

Not exactly, 304 stainless is 18/10. 18/8 is the family of the 300 series stainless, which means they have no less then 18% Cr and 8% Ni, there are a few websites that erroneously say that 304 has "no more" than 8%, but the AISI standard for 304 is between 8-10.5% Ni.

Any true 300 series will not rust, 201 shouldn't rust either but will tarnish. 400 series will develop surface rust, but it will not penetrate the metal.

Online Metals -

Common Trade Names​

UNS S30400, AISI 304, SAE 304, T304, T-304, Cr/Ni 18/10, austenitic stainless steel

Welders hat off.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

So, I'm putting my welder hat on for a minute... there is no cheap 304. What they use is 201 SS, which has some of the properties of the 300 series of stainless, but made with cheaper manganese instead of nickel. Before I got certified as a SS welder I thought the same as you. Almost all of the cheap exhaust sold on ebay as 304 stainless, its just 201. I was sold some welding rods for TIG that were supposed to be 304, but ended up being 201, they behave entirely different when welding. An expensive lesson learned.

Stainless Steel Type 201

Rolled Metal Products is one of the steel industry’s most respected service centers with facilities across North America. We stock Stainless Steel, Nickel Alloys, Aluminum and other Specialty Metals in coil form and also offer toll processing of various metals including: Stainless Steel, Nickel...

rolledmetalproducts.com

Not exactly, 304 stainless is 18/10. 18/8 is the family of the 300 series stainless, which means they have no less then 18% Cr and 8% Ni, there are a few websites that erroneously say that 304 has "no more" than 8%, but the AISI standard for 304 is between 8-10.5% Ni.

Any true 300 series will not rust, 201 shouldn't rust either but will tarnish. 400 series will develop surface rust, but it will not penetrate the metal.



Welders hat off.

Thanks for the info I appreciate it . So the back of the pans say 18/8 from your comments I should suspect some rust protection but not as much as 304 correct

 

[Maiden69]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it . So the back of the pans say 18/8 from your comments I should suspect some rust protection but not as much as 304 correct

If that all it says could be 301 stainless, which is commonly used for utensils and tableware. I don't think you will have any issues with it. I know @Clicio used a stainless steel colander, but I don't know which series it was. He could give some feedback on what he experience with it.

stainless-steel 301 Product Guide from Online Metals

Learn important details about stainless-steel 301 and other metals using the OnlineMetals.com® Product Guide.

www.onlinemetals.com

 

[Cajunrider]

So, I'm putting my welder hat on for a minute... there is no cheap 304. What they use is 201 SS, which has some of the properties of the 300 series of stainless, but made with cheaper manganese instead of nickel. Before I got certified as a SS welder I thought the same as you. Almost all of the cheap exhaust sold on ebay as 304 stainless, its just 201. I was sold some welding rods for TIG that were supposed to be 304, but ended up being 201, they behave entirely different when welding. An expensive lesson learned.

Stainless Steel Type 201

Rolled Metal Products is one of the steel industry’s most respected service centers with facilities across North America. We stock Stainless Steel, Nickel Alloys, Aluminum and other Specialty Metals in coil form and also offer toll processing of various metals including: Stainless Steel, Nickel...

rolledmetalproducts.com

Not exactly, 304 stainless is 18/10. 18/8 is the family of the 300 series stainless, which means they have no less then 18% Cr and 8% Ni, there are a few websites that erroneously say that 304 has "no more" than 8%, but the AISI standard for 304 is between 8-10.5% Ni.

Any true 300 series will not rust, 201 shouldn't rust either but will tarnish. 400 series will develop surface rust, but it will not penetrate the metal.



Welders hat off.

I agree that true 300 series will not rust but ahem these things are from China. I have had those very tray rusting on me. Perhaps I shouldn’t call it cheap 304 but cheap stainless that is not true to specs it is.

 

[Clicio]

If that all it says could be 301 stainless, which is commonly used for utensils and tableware. I don't think you will have any issues with it. I know @Clicio used a stainless steel colander, but I don't know which series it was. He could give some feedback on what he experience with it.

stainless-steel 301 Product Guide from Online Metals

Learn important details about stainless-steel 301 and other metals using the OnlineMetals.com® Product Guide.

www.onlinemetals.com

Absolutely no issues at all.
In fact I have four or five trees inside steel colanders, some in double colanders, and they are doing great.
They haven´t rusted after three years, outdoors.

 

[Maiden69]

I agree that true 300 series will not rust but ahem these things are from China. I have had those very tray rusting on me. Perhaps I shouldn’t call it cheap 304 but cheap stainless that is not true to specs it is.

Just because they "are from China" doesn't equate as they will be inferior. I checked the company, its a Canadian company established in 1973, with outstanding reviews. I don't think they would be selling to restaurants if their Chinaware was of inferior quality. Now, had he bought it on AliExpress with ZongZong brand name I would be wary about the quality.

 

[jradics]

I also asked my dentists for an any retired picks. They gave me half a dozen.
I’m going to try them for juniper vein cleaning.

HARBOUR FREIGHT SELLS THOSE TOO

 

[Cajunrider]

Just because they "are from China" doesn't equate as they will be inferior. I checked the company, its a Canadian company established in 1973, with outstanding reviews. I don't think they would be selling to restaurants if their Chinaware was of inferior quality. Now, had he bought it on AliExpress with ZongZong brand name I would be wary about the quality.

Understood. My dealing with China in the past 4 decades showed that, unless we do extensive quality assurance work, there is no guarantee that the quality is there regardless of brand. I have had companies for which I have total business trust but for Chinese companies, it is forever trust but verify.
For this planned use of the trays as grow boxes, I don't think there would be any issue regardless of the quality of the stainless. If you can get them at reasonable price, by all means, get them. They won't fail in this application.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Understood. My dealing with China in the past 4 decades showed that, unless we do extensive quality assurance work, there is no guarantee that the quality is there regardless of brand. I have had companies for which I have total business trust but for Chinese companies, it is forever trust but verify.

THIS!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Thanks for all the info guys I appreciate it . There is no doubt I am going to try the containers . Only question is how invested in quantity am I going to get . I feel
Pretty safe . They have a lot going for them . Especially multiple sizes and stiff to move them around without root disturbance . There is negatives to other options . As well .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

HARBOUR FREIGHT SELLS THOSE TOO

Pics are all about quality of the metal . Hard metal snaps soft metal bends . Especially important when you get to something small like a pic . As a Automotive tech I have made multiple for special jobs . And will
Probably make some for bonsai . What you need is high carbon spring steel . A good source is thin round rod that are the support rods in a automotive seat . I have seen similar material in home furniture . The key . If you try this is to not overheat the steel when you sharpen it to a point or sharp edge . If it turns colour using power tools . It’s junk lost it’s strength . Most cheap pics I have seen sold as tools or pics are junk soft and just bend . Quality like actual dentist pics or high end pics will be good . A extra small pair of vise grip pliers make a good holder . A end bent slightly and sharpened on both sides like a knife is very handy

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Pics are all about quality of the metal . Hard metal snaps soft metal bends . Especially important when you get to something small like a pic . As a Automotive tech I have made multiple for special jobs . And will
Probably make some for bonsai . What you need is high carbon spring steel . A good source is thin round rod that are the support rods in a automotive seat . I have seen similar material in home furniture . The key . If you try this is to not overheat the steel when you sharpen it to a point or sharp edge . If it turns colour using power tools . It’s junk lost it’s strength . Most cheap pics I have seen sold as tools or pics are junk soft and just bend . Quality like actual dentist pics or high end pics will be good . A extra small pair of vise grip pliers make a good holder . A end bent slightly and sharpened on both sides like a knife is very handy

I have also found . That artistic carving of wood and other materials is far more popular than Bonsai . There is tremendous amount of info to be gained . Especially on tool availability . In your area . Seek out these people . Like us they have clubs . Often selling there wares at local craft shows . If you think there not approachable . Purchase something from them . And explain your motives . It’s like asking us to discuss bonsai . They will talk all day about carving

 

[JackHammer]

This is my oyster fork root rake. Free with an order to-go.

 

[JackHammer]

Aerial root 'straw' from garden hose.

 

[JackHammer]

The bus tubs work well for me. $7.50 each.
View attachment 472862

I ordered a few of these. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Aerial root 'straw' from garden hose.

View attachment 475429

I don’t get the idea . Not a tropical guy so don’t have trees with aerial roots . Is the idea to create a passage way from branch to the pot to encourage roots to form