Napa Oil Dry part no. 8822

[Gary McCarthy]

Just to clarify, Ryan has never used DE as an additive to his soil mixtures. At one point several years he tested DE to see if it could be used in place of Akadama. He quickly discovered it did not have the same properties as Akadama and moved on from it. He has NEVER recommended it as a replacement for Akadama. In some recent comments about DE in response to a question he was asked in one of his Q&A podcasts he specifically recommended not using it.

 

[August44]

Just to clarify, Ryan has never used DE as an additive to his soil mixtures. At one point several years he tested DE to see if it could be used in place of Akadama. He quickly discovered it did not have the same properties as Akadama and moved on from it. He has NEVER recommended it as a replacement for Akadama. In some recent comments about DE in response to a question he was asked in one of his Q&A podcasts he specifically recommended not using it.

And do you know his reason(s) for the recommendation and what did he "quickly discover" about DE that was so bad?

 

[Timbo]

With all due respect, it doesn't really matter if he tried it or not, people use it with success. I use it up here because it's relatively cheap, easy to get and works well in a variety of mixes. Is it the best soil mix? I dunno, doesn't matter to me, if it keeps the trees alive and I get good feeder roots/growth I'm happy.

Our growth up here will never equal your climates, I worry more about our freeze/thaw cycles and the wet spring we get here. IMO, you should experiment with soil mixes and ratios in your micro climate, if I want it to dry out faster I add things like granite grit (heavy though). Even up here it still drains well after a few years, and I've used 2-5 year old DE soil mixes laying around for plants and trees. TBH, my med-fast growing trees fill pots before I have to worry about the soil breaking down. I'd be curious to know how long it lasts in warmer climates without the freeze/thaw cycle.

 

[Underdog]

I know I've got 5-6 yr old DE still plugging after numerous repots. Not saying its the best but works for me.

 

[James W.]

And, for what it's worth, DE is not a substitute or replacement for akadama or kanuma or anything else. It is a unique soil component and it's use should be based on it's own qualities.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Personally, I hate the term "the best". For who? In what circumstances? For all conditions? How much better is it than the "next best"? Is the price difference worth the difference in performance? Middle of the road has always worked for me in most endeavors in life. DE has done all I've asked of it for 6 years. Fair enough.

 

[Arlithrien]

I actual just wash it in a tub/kitty pool with a homemade square screen, just to get the dust out. It takes about 5 min a bag to get out all the tiny particles. I've used it straight also, it just seems to clump less washing it. It works well here pure to get cuttings going with a decent fiber root system.

Same, I sift underwater it's much faster and much safer for my respiratory system.

 

[sorce]

Same, I sift underwater it's much faster and much safer for my respiratory system.

Aye, entire underwater repotting works better too!

Sorce

 

[Arlithrien]

Aye, entire underwater repotting works better too!

Sorce

Same. Submerging the pot and gently shaking (while holding tree upright) to allow the particles to settle in any pockets is so much better than prodding with a chopstick.

 

[sorce]

Same. Submerging the pot and gently shaking (while holding tree upright) to allow the particles to settle in any pockets is so much better than prodding with a chopstick.

Dare we say......

As nature intended.

Sorce

 

[Timbo]

Same, I sift underwater it's much faster and much safer for my respiratory system.

Along those lines, I cut the bag open and wet down the DE with a DRAMM sprayer before pouring it in the screen box. Still get some dust, but most of the dust blowing comes when you pour the bag out, so it helps. I still use a high-quality mask though when doing it. That dust is no joke on the damage it can do to your lungs (most dust really).

 

[michaelj]

Just to clarify, Ryan has never used DE as an additive to his soil mixtures. At one point several years he tested DE to see if it could be used in place of Akadama. He quickly discovered it did not have the same properties as Akadama and moved on from it. He has NEVER recommended it as a replacement for Akadama. In some recent comments about DE in response to a question he was asked in one of his Q&A podcasts he specifically recommended not using it.

No, he has very specifically and expressly recommended it as the number one replacement for akadama. If he's changed his position since 2018, I don't know, but here's what he said in 2018 about DE:

"Diatomaceous Earth, horticultural grade, same particle size, high cation-exchange capacity, porosity, large amount of plant available water, as far as I'm concerned, where we stand right now, number one substitute for akadama in terms of delivering that cation-exchange capacity, that nutrient holding component, while being able to maintain these other pieces."

 

[yashu]

No, he has very specifically and expressly recommended it as the number one replacement for akadama. If he's changed his position since 2018, I don't know, but here's what he said in 2018 about DE:

"Diatomaceous Earth, horticultural grade, same particle size, high cation-exchange capacity, porosity, large amount of plant available water, as far as I'm concerned, where we stand right now, number one substitute for akadama in terms of delivering that cation-exchange capacity, that nutrient holding component, while being able to maintain these other pieces."

I remember watching that and it was one of the reasons I decided to use it as the dominant component in my mix. Recently though, several people adamantly stated that his position was to the contrary so I just assumed there was newer information he put out there on the “members only” Mirai Live service that I just had not seen. I still use and have good success so at some point I guess I just have to go my own way with what I have that’s available and affordable.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

No, he has very specifically and expressly recommended it as the number one replacement for akadama. If he's changed his position since 2018, I don't know, but here's what he said in 2018 about DE:

"Diatomaceous Earth, horticultural grade, same particle size, high cation-exchange capacity, porosity, large amount of plant available water, as far as I'm concerned, where we stand right now, number one substitute for akadama in terms of delivering that cation-exchange capacity, that nutrient holding component, while being able to maintain these other pieces."

Well, he has changed his mind then. The last time somebody asked him a question about it on one of his Q&As maybe a month or so ago he recommended not using it.

 

[michaelj]

Well, he has changed his mind then. The last time somebody asked him a question about it on one of his Q&As maybe a month or so ago he recommended not using it.

Can you provide the context or share his reasons? Normally, if he changes his mind about something, he's pretty detailed when explaining his reasons, and he had very well-informed and specific reasons for his recommendations in 2018.
Context matters, too. I'm sure if someone asked him whether to put a common juniper into DE, he'd tell them not to. Could be that he's found some other species or cultivars that don't do well in DE. Or did he just say, no, we've found that it sucks for any tree in a pot?

 

[August]

Sorry to bring this old 8822 thread back. According to the current SDS (as of 2015, actually), the diatomaceous earth in the product is listed as "natural" rather than calcined. Cause for concern? I have been using it for about a year and have found it does crumble quite easily. Anyone care to chirp in?

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET - NAPA Auto Parts https://media.napaonline.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1814126pdf

 

[August44]

Sorry to bring this old 8822 thread back. According to the current SDS (as of 2015, actually), the diatomaceous earth in the product is listed as "natural" rather than calcined. Cause for concern? I have been using it for about a year and have found it does crumble quite easily. Anyone care to chirp in?

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET - NAPA Auto Parts https://media.napaonline.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1814126pdf

What is the diffence between the two?

 

[lehigh4me]

It looks like Napa 8822 is not calcined anymore according to MSDS sheet. I used to use it all the time.
Now the calcined floor dry from Napa is Oil Absorbent 40 Lbs Montmorillinite Clay
Part number NFD 6040.

 

[August]

I actually just went back and read the whole thread. There was talk of it being un-fired from @milehigh_7 who actually called EP minerals to find out... the consensus was that the product was still good and even better off than the calcined alternative. Then a couple years later BNut himself posted what I assume was the wrong SDS (sorry BNut), showing that it *was* calcined, after which the consensus was that it being fired was better... what a headache. Then just a couple years after that it seemed people were upset about it not being calcined. Im not sure what to take from this I think I'll just observe my own experiences with it for a little longer...

 

[August]

It looks like Napa 8822 is not calcined anymore according to MSDS sheet. I used to use it all the time.
Now the calcined floor dry from Napa is Oil Absorbent 40 Lbs Montmorillinite Clay
Part number NFD 6040.

*has not been* since the SDS was made in 2015. Actually since before this thread was started, though I'm sure there were old bags still in circulation.