Multiple issues with this JBP including long second flush. Is it the heat?

[dacoontz]

Posted this in another thread but felt like I was hijacking the thread and wasn’t getting any advice, so started my own.

Keep in mind I’m still new at this and this tree didn’t seem to have a lot of active work being done to it when I acquired it last Fall.

I decandled in late May, obviously too early. Not sure the excessive heat here in southern Oregon has helped either. Had to water daily which also may be part of the problem. I did repot this tree also this spring but didn’t do much root pruning. Anyhow, I’ve done everything wrong it would seem. Now here’s what I’ve got.

Should I reduce these taller second flush candles? What do I do with the long leggy internodes in those lower branches? And you can see I’ve removed some older needles on some branches and not in others to see what happens, maybe not a good idea? This tree will also need some hard pruning I’d imagine at certain areas as it gets a bit busy towards the top of the tree, but this needs to wait until fall, correct?

 

[sorce]

I decandled in late May, obviously too early

By about 2 years IMO!
It looks like it has been mistreated for a few years before you got it. Probably clinging to life.

The branches are far enough away from each other to allow years of unrestrained growth and not really lose anything. The health will allow you

some hard pruning

To start building branches and find what you'll keep out of the top.

Sorce

 

[BrightsideB]

That tree doesn’t look to beginner friendly. Unless you have a mentor or something. I’m not able to give advice because I don’t have experience with this. But loooks like some cool material! I wish you luck with it! Maybe try to get a design going. It’s really leggy.

 

[dacoontz]

That tree doesn’t look to beginner friendly. Unless you have a mentor or something. I’m not able to give advice because I don’t have experience with this. But loooks like some cool material! I wish you luck with it! Maybe try to get a design going. It’s really leggy.

Definitely has not been a beginner friendly tree. The trunk has a ton of character but it’s basically everything else that needs help.

 

[Shibui]

Keep in mind I’m still new at this and this tree didn’t seem to have a lot of active work being done to it when I acquired it last Fall.

I decandled in late May, obviously too early. Not sure the excessive heat here in southern Oregon has helped either. Had to water daily which also may be part of the problem. I did repot this tree also this spring but didn’t do much root pruning. Anyhow, I’ve done everything wrong it would seem. Now here’s what I’ve got.

Should I reduce these taller second flush candles? What do I do with the long leggy internodes in those lower branches? And you can see I’ve removed some older needles on some branches and not in others to see what happens, maybe not a good idea? This tree will also need some hard pruning I’d imagine at certain areas as it gets a bit busy towards the top of the tree, but this needs to wait until fall, correct?

This is yet another JBP that appears to have been in the hands of another beginner and when they finally realized it had got away and beyond easy redemption it has been sold on to another unsuspecting newbie.
There is still hope. I've recovered some of my earlier attempts that had got to a much worse stage but it takes time, dedication and work.

The lower branches still look OK. Some are a little longer than desirable but can still be rescued by wiring to compress the bare sections bringing the active foliage closer to the trunk and then continuing to grow then out in a more controlled manner.
Losing a few branches that you cannot rescue is not the end of the world. There appears to be more than enough for a good bonsai pine design.
Looks like some candles were not removed completely and they have done what pines do and produced new buds at the tips where they were pruned. You can prune now and the tree should at least set new buds for next spring. It may still be early enough for some to open and extend. OR you can let it grow this summer and prune next year. There's nothing to stop you pruning pines further than the new candles. I routinely cut developing pines back into 2 yo wood to get new shoot further back. Provided there are still healthy needles it will bud.
The cluster of very strong branches at the apex needs attention soon. Apical dominance will restrict response to pruning in lower branches while these strong upper branches remain. There may be a coupe of small shoots lower on these that you could cut back to other wise remove all of them and start a new apex from one of the branches below.

The tree will look worse for a few years while you convince it to do what is needed but it does have some potential with a few years of concerted effort.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

First off, it has decent bark and some potential, but the techniques have been misapplied. Feed it heavily, keep it in full sun and let it grow unchecked until early fall, then it can be pruned and wired. Both of those training techniques will result in needed back-budding when done at the right time.

I would encourage you to only follow the advice and timing of those who have JBP you like. Your trees will look like the trees of people you follow…

 

[Bonsai Nut]

First, just to emphasize what @Brian Van Fleet is saying above... do NOTHING to the tree until the summer has passed. Do not touch the new candles even though they are longer than you would want. Sometimes it is hard to just leave a tree alone, but that is what is needed here. IN THE FUTURE timing of fertilization and timing of candle removal is critical on JBP. The earlier you cut your candles each year, the longer the second flush candles will be, and if you are heavily fertilizing the tree when you remove the candles, they will probably extend faster and farther than you'd like.

Second, I think the tree has lots of potential once it has the proper care. As long as the tree is healthy and strong you have options. If it were my tree, I'd be eliminating the top and heading in this direction:



It will be critically important to wire your branches and lay them out horizontally for you to develop back buds. And the tree may eventually need some branch grafts, but it is not a difficult task as long as you get the tree strong first.

 

[Paradox]

Do not cut the new growth back now.

Follow Brian's advice.

For JBP, Brian and Adair M are the two resident experts. Follow them and you won't go wrong

 

[Adair M]

I agree with what both BVF and Bonsai Nut said.

 

[Paradox]

Bonsai Nut posted before I could finish my post ( got distracted lol).

He also gives good advice

 

[dacoontz]

Wow, thank you so much for the responses. I will leave it well enough alone. Any benefit to slipping it out of the current pot and getting it into something a bit larger/deeper?

 

[Mayank]

Posted this in another thread but felt like I was hijacking the thread and wasn’t getting any advice, so started my own.

Keep in mind I’m still new at this and this tree didn’t seem to have a lot of active work being done to it when I acquired it last Fall.

I decandled in late May, obviously too early. Not sure the excessive heat here in southern Oregon has helped either. Had to water daily which also may be part of the problem. I did repot this tree also this spring but didn’t do much root pruning. Anyhow, I’ve done everything wrong it would seem. Now here’s what I’ve got.

Should I reduce these taller second flush candles? What do I do with the long leggy internodes in those lower branches? And you can see I’ve removed some older needles on some branches and not in others to see what happens, maybe not a good idea? This tree will also need some hard pruning I’d imagine at certain areas as it gets a bit busy towards the top of the tree, but this needs to wait until fall, correct?

Can't see any of the pics. Anyone else have that issue. I can see the one that bonsainut posted.

 

[dacoontz]

Here’s the pics and some more.

 

[Paradox]

Wow, thank you so much for the responses. I will leave it well enough alone. Any benefit to slipping it out of the current pot and getting it into something a bit larger/deeper?

No just leave it be, just and feed and water

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Wow, thank you so much for the responses. I will leave it well enough alone. Any benefit to slipping it out of the current pot and getting it into something a bit larger/deeper?

No, not now. Timing is everything in bonsai. Spring is the time for repotting, and in the spring, it would benefit from a slightly larger, deeper pot.

 

[Adair M]

Wow, thank you so much for the responses. I will leave it well enough alone. Any benefit to slipping it out of the current pot and getting it into something a bit larger/deeper?

No.

 

[dacoontz]

Got it, will keep it where it lies for the time being. Thank you much.

 

[dacoontz]

Here’s another JBP I have that looks very different but had same techniques applied. Difference is this is a thunbergii and was purchased from a nursery in much better health. Didn’t really reduce the root mass as I stuck it in a large grow box to see if I could get the trunk to fatten up and grow into the huge nebari graft. It still probably needs some branched pruned, but I was hesitant to cut too many.

This has pretty leggy growth also but probably for different reasons I’d guess.

What would be the difference in the process to get this one to back bud? Do I need to remove all of last year’s needles?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here’s another JBP I have that looks very different but had same techniques applied. Difference is this is a thunbergii and was purchased from a nursery in much better health. Didn’t really reduce the root mass as I stuck it in a large grow box to see if I could get the trunk to fatten up and grow into the huge nebari graft. It still probably needs some branched pruned, but I was hesitant to cut too many.

This has pretty leggy growth also but probably for different reasons I’d guess.

What would be the difference in the process to get this one to back bud? Do I need to remove all of last year’s needles?

Is this one a ‘Kotobuki’?

 

[dacoontz]

Is this one a ‘Kotobuki’?

Correct.