Harunobu
Chumono
'Shugetsu' is the white center sport of 'Aikoku'. So in a way, you get 'Shugetsu'-flowers on 'Aikoku'. A good 'Aikoku' still has a good number of white flowers (with maybe a few speckles).
mail order azaleas Sept 2020
- Thread starter Leo in N E Illinois
- Start date
'Shugetsu' is the white center sport of 'Aikoku'. So in a way, you get 'Shugetsu'-flowers on 'Aikoku'. A good 'Aikoku' still has a good number of white flowers (with maybe a few speckles).
bunjin
Mame
Thanks for the information. My only specimen is my oldest Satsuki and is not a prolific bloomer. This points out the need to have all of one's favorite cultivars growing as mother plants or duplicates in the garden.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Shugetsu does fit the description. Looking forward to seeing them flower.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Harunobu
Chumono
Nice. Are you not sure how the flowers look? Mostly, they are the large flowering varieties. But 'Shinso no Hana' is one of the exceptions, being a 'Matsunami' seedling. I think 'Matsunami' system cultivar may be among the best for people starting out. Good growth, hardy, smaller flowers, and nice multicolour flowers. I kinda suspect 'Matsunami' to have some kurume blood, but there is no way to be sure.
Among the list of cultivars at the Arkansas nursery, I think 'Kisarazu' would also be nice for smaller plants. 'Kinpai' as well, which you got. It is a sport of 'Yata no Kagami'. Very popular for bonsai.
Some of the other ones are quite obscure. 'Kin Nishiki' is a sport of 'Shokko Nishiki' which is one of the oldest cultivar. But for whatever reason, when I open a satsuki Kenkyu magazine, I see many 'Kinsai', 'Osakazuki' and 'Yata no Kagaki' bonsai. Not 'Shokko Nishiki' bonsai.
One kind of would think that many of these very old bonsai were very old hedges that happened to have a 1 out of a 1000 branch structure that made them ideal for bonsai. Sort of a yamadori where you go from garden plant to bonsai. Or they may have been bonsai from the start. But I think it makes sense that 100 year old satuski bonsai, those that were mass planted in gardens 100 years ago are over-represented among the now 100 year old trees.
Among the list of cultivars at the Arkansas nursery, I think 'Kisarazu' would also be nice for smaller plants. 'Kinpai' as well, which you got. It is a sport of 'Yata no Kagami'. Very popular for bonsai.
Some of the other ones are quite obscure. 'Kin Nishiki' is a sport of 'Shokko Nishiki' which is one of the oldest cultivar. But for whatever reason, when I open a satsuki Kenkyu magazine, I see many 'Kinsai', 'Osakazuki' and 'Yata no Kagaki' bonsai. Not 'Shokko Nishiki' bonsai.
One kind of would think that many of these very old bonsai were very old hedges that happened to have a 1 out of a 1000 branch structure that made them ideal for bonsai. Sort of a yamadori where you go from garden plant to bonsai. Or they may have been bonsai from the start. But I think it makes sense that 100 year old satuski bonsai, those that were mass planted in gardens 100 years ago are over-represented among the now 100 year old trees.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
I researched all the flower colors and shapes before I selected those. What concerns me the most is ensuring the plant is actually the cultivar that is listed on the tag......then I can start production on my end knowing for sure its the correct cultivar.
Next I have to make a visit to Whites nursery, but you have to call to make arrangements to visit, and i need to figure out a list of what to pick up.
My goal is to offer the most satsuki cultivars in Maryland.
Harunobu
Chumono
Oh yeah, propagation is your passion 
Yeah, it may be hard to be 100% sure if the flowers match the descriptions. If you can't find the picture, I have 2020 dictionary, as well as several older. And of course some of them might be bad sports of the right cultivar.
Btw, don't forget your own native NA satsuki cultivars. And isn't White's in Maryland? Would be hard to beat them. Best would be to visit them next year when they flower, and take a dictionary with you. That way, you can buy plants with the proper flowers.
Yeah, it may be hard to be 100% sure if the flowers match the descriptions. If you can't find the picture, I have 2020 dictionary, as well as several older. And of course some of them might be bad sports of the right cultivar.
Btw, don't forget your own native NA satsuki cultivars. And isn't White's in Maryland? Would be hard to beat them. Best would be to visit them next year when they flower, and take a dictionary with you. That way, you can buy plants with the proper flowers.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Yes, Whites is a little over an hour from my house. They claim to have 350+ "evergreen" azaleas, which consists of a bunch of different families of cultivars. I am concentrating solely on satsuki's, i think its possible to collect the largest collection of satsukis here in Maryland. I just made an order for 18 cultivars. Another four more orders could easily put me at 100 cultivars easily. The issue would then be the space to grow out all the cuttings.Oh yeah, propagation is your passion
Yeah, it may be hard to be 100% sure if the flowers match the descriptions. If you can't find the picture, I have 2020 dictionary, as well as several older. And of course some of them might be bad sports of the right cultivar.
Btw, don't forget your own native NA satsuki cultivars. And isn't White's in Maryland? Would be hard to beat them. Best would be to visit them next year when they flower, and take a dictionary with you. That way, you can buy plants with the proper flowers.
Harunobu
Chumono
Ah, so you wouldn't consider a variety registered in the US as a 'satsuki', even if both parents are Japanese-registered satsuki? One of course has to draw the line somewhere, but when I see pictures of 'Ann Lee McPhail' or 'Sensuous', I am pretty impressed.
kale
Shohin
I’m not entirely convinced the 3 satsukis I ordered from Nuccio’s this past spring are actually satsuki. What do you guys think? I just think the leaves seem too broad. Hopefully I’m wrong! BTW thanks for all your help with choosing an appropriate substrate. They definitely grew a lot this summer!
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Well I got "Oh my" which is bred here at the US Arboratum. But yeah I agree with you, satsuki bloodlines run real deep. If the flower looks good how can I turn that down. Have you seen Elsie Lee in person or Ramapo, those are gorgeous! I have both of those here as well growing. But I suppose I could say the most actual Japanese cultivars.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Nice plants!
Gosh, it all depends on the specific cultivars you have... there are bigger leaves, smaller leaves, narrow leaves etc.
Perhaps the better question would be, were your blooms true to type? If they were you should have no questions about the plants you have.
I’ve received orders for over 20 different cultivars and they are all true to type. I haven’t gotten a number 2 from them yet.
Cheers
DSD sends
Gosh, it all depends on the specific cultivars you have... there are bigger leaves, smaller leaves, narrow leaves etc.
Perhaps the better question would be, were your blooms true to type? If they were you should have no questions about the plants you have.
I’ve received orders for over 20 different cultivars and they are all true to type. I haven’t gotten a number 2 from them yet.
Cheers
DSD sends
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Harunobu
Chumono
Well, 'Elsie Lee' has no satsuki blood at all. And Ramapo isn't an azalea. So I get you aren't collecting those. But the 'Elsie Lee' x 'Shinnyo no Tsuki' cross would be a tossup.
But for example, 'Holly Springs Astronaut' is 'Amagasa' x 'Sekai no Hikari' is 100% satsuki, just not Japanese. In the end, of course it depends on your taste as well. I suggest looking at that a lot more than if a name is Japanese or appears in a book. 'Oh My' is from memory a selection made by Creech at the US arboretum. Not sure if from seed or from lost labeled plants from Japanese imports.
It gets confusing because if you look at White's Nursery stocklist, some Harris varieties are satuski, others are not. Some Holly Springs azalea are satsuki, others partially or indirectly, others are not. A lot of Bowie Mill look like satuski, but the parentage is not known. So what does one buy? Best to visit and see for oneself. And does one collect all the Robinhills? Many are very high in satsuki blood, but many also look very similar.
@kale, it depends on the cultivar. These seem like R.indicum x R.eriocarpum hybrids with large flowers. Some like 'Gettoku' even have Belgian Indica blood. I think Nuccio's sells many of these. Satsuki are a wide group themselves, and not entirely homogeneous.
kale
Shohin
Good to know thanks @Harunobu and @Deep Sea Diver ! I’m really kicking myself for not keeping the tags with the names :/ @Leo in N E Illinois I’m sure you won’t make the same mistake! If I recall, Nuccio’s was out of my first selections so they subbed a couple but after chatting with you guys I don’t think they would sub anything non-satsuki. Either way, theyre fun little plants and I’ll probably be ordering more next year. Maybe I should order now for a better chance at getting my choices.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
You are welcome.
Two options. Call Jim or Tom at Nuccio’s and see if they keep records of receipts. They might.
Second, record the types of blooms, time of blooms and types of leaves and match these to the Satsuki part of their catalog. There are only so many in their catalog.
Cheers
DSD sends
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Here's what the plants look like if you order from Azalea Hills. Keep in mind they arrived with no pots, just neatly packed into the box each bagged in a 1 gal bread bag.
@Harunobu that's my dilemma. There are azaleas with nice flowers that aren't satsuki or have satsuki bloodlines in them. I have Elsie Lee and Ramapo because I like their flowers, has nothing to do with satsuki. Right now I'm just building up the mother plants. Propagation is not the hard part for me. The hard part is tracking down all the nice cultivars. Some info on 'Oh My'.
@Harunobu that's my dilemma. There are azaleas with nice flowers that aren't satsuki or have satsuki bloodlines in them. I have Elsie Lee and Ramapo because I like their flowers, has nothing to do with satsuki. Right now I'm just building up the mother plants. Propagation is not the hard part for me. The hard part is tracking down all the nice cultivars. Some info on 'Oh My'.
Harunobu
Chumono
Nah, the problem is making space for 200+ cultivar. But you have space for at least 2 more. 'Elsie Lee' is a very interesting plant. Many people have had very nice results crossing it with a more tender azalea, both in the US, Germany, and Scotland. There are some spectacular double flowers that are quite hardy. For example, 'Eliza Hyatt'. (Not really my thing, though).
Ah, I remembered wrongly about 'Oh My' then. I saw that article before. But it was Beattie importing it. I wonder how it compares to 'Issho no Haru'.
I think DSD will be happy to see that some of them have grown as whips.
Buying plants these size is really ideal if you are into collecting cultivar. Saves tons of money
Ah, I remembered wrongly about 'Oh My' then. I saw that article before. But it was Beattie importing it. I wonder how it compares to 'Issho no Haru'.
I think DSD will be happy to see that some of them have grown as whips.
Buying plants these size is really ideal if you are into collecting cultivar. Saves tons of money
Harunobu
Chumono
These are some to consider for next time (if you can find them):
‘Christie Gutierrez’ [Holly Springs]
www.azaleas.org
‘Dr. Fred Vines’ [Holly Springs]
www.azaleas.org
‘Holly Springs Doubloon’ [Holly Springs]
www.azaleas.org
‘Sensuous’ [Holly Springs]
www.azaleas.org
‘Ann Lee McPhail’ [Harris]
www.azaleas.org
‘Joe Klimavicz’ [Stewart]
www.azaleas.org
But that's just my taste.
‘Christie Gutierrez’ [Holly Springs]
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
View Azalea - Azalea Society of America
www.azaleas.org
But that's just my taste.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
Exactly right, space is another issue. I have 3.4 acres so I have space it's not that much of a problem. I can cut down a few trees to make space for them. The propagation tables I made are 4ft x 8ft, each table can hold 16 each 10"x20" flats. The picture I just posted of the order is a 4" x 10 pot tray, 16 of these pot trays would make 160 mother plants in 4" pots....I plan to use the 4" for mother plants. Only thing is the daisy trays don't exactly fit the 4" x 10 pot trays, so I guessing I can probably keep around 180 total on a propagation table.Nah, the problem is making space for 200+ cultivar. 'Elsie Lee' is a very interesting plant. Many people have had very nice results crossing it with a more tender azalea, both in the US, Germany, and Scotland. There are some spectacular double flowers that are quite hardy. For example, 'Eliza Hyatt'. (Not really my thing, though).
Ah, I remembered wrongly about 'Oh My' then. I saw that article before. But it was Beattie importing it. I wonder how it compares to 'Issho no Haru'.
I think DSD will be happy to see that some of them have grown as whips.
Buying plants these size is really ideal if you are into collecting cultivar. Saves tons of money
The stock I plan to maintain will be in 2.5" pots, and those trays hold 32 pots.....so 32 pots x 16 trays is 512 cuttings. But I plan to only grow out one 32 pot tray per cultivar. If not I will run out of space as the numbers run up quick.......I like numbers
Harunobu
Chumono
Get square pots
