Key words to look for to know if a pot is able to withstand winter outdoors

[Poink88]

Here is Cacade's pot that popped. Not inward lips. Purely due to roots and I believe (assumption in my part) very strong anchoring wires. Had the wires been weaker, I believe, the tree would have pushed itself up instead of popping the pot.

Don Blackmond's

 

[Cadillactaste]

I don't think so.

Phew! I went and didn't feel a lip...but then was not sure what a the poster classified as a curled lip.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Here is Cacade's pot that popped. Not inward lips. Purely due to roots and I believe (assumption in my part) very strong anchoring wires. Had the wires been weaker, I believe, the tree would have pushed itself up instead of popping the pot.

So that isn't a traditional cascade pot...so...one can break away with traditional pots then? Or am I just not aware of cascade pots so shallow? That would totally suck...losing a pot like that...it seems like a great shaped pot at that. Bugger!

 

[Poink88]

Phew! I went and didn't feel a lip...but then was not sure what a the poster classified as a curled lip.

Yours is but I do not think you have to worry about it popping. One thing is it will be difficult to repot later. Imagine your tree ready, now you want to remove it...there will be lots of roots under those lip...you need to cut those before you can remove the tree from your pot. Usual culprit to nice Japanese pots having broken lips.

Check the cracked pot by Don above...you can see the lip outline...maybe the reason why the tree was not repotted for a long while.

 

[Poink88]

So that isn't a traditional cascade pot...so...one can break away with traditional pots then? Or am I just not aware of cascade pots so shallow? That would totally suck...losing a pot like that...it seems like a great shaped pot at that. Bugger!

Cascade is Dorothy's username...the owner of the tree and pot.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Cascade is Dorothy's username...the owner of the tree and pot.

Ahhh I was wondering after I posted...if there was a poster with that name. thanks!
Sorry about that Dorothy...I sort of recall your poster name now.


So Dario...what were the cause of all the cracked pots...their story if you know.

 

[Poink88]

So Dario...what were the cause of all the cracked pots...their story if you know.

I don't know. As I said my assumption is due to roots plus strong anchoring wire on Dorothy's. Roots plus smaller mouth on Don's.

Safer to ask them directly though.

 

[GrimLore]

Could be roots blew it out, could be a trainer pot low fired, but I do not see relevance to lipped or not in that case. The point in cone temps is to match the pot with the environment. After that know the tree and what it needs. We only own one pot with an inward lip and know we do not need to repot it for another two years. It has been in training as a variegated tropical cascade for a LONG time and we do plan on simply breaking the pot with a simple hammer when we do repot. Nothing is forever including "evergreens" Location first, planning next...

Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

Could be roots blew it out, could be a trainer pot low fired, but I do not see relevance to lipped or not in that case. The point in cone temps is to match the pot with the environment. After that know the tree and what it needs. We only own one pot with an inward lip and know we do not need to repot it for another two years. It has been in training as a variegated tropical cascade for a LONG time and we do plan on simply breaking the pot with a simple hammer when we do repot. Nothing is forever including "evergreens" Location first, planning next...

Grimmy

If you came in knowing you will break the pot, that is fine. ME, I try to avoid that situation.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Could be roots blew it out, could be a trainer pot low fired, but I do not see relevance to lipped or not in that case. The point in cone temps is to match the pot with the environment. After that know the tree and what it needs. We only own one pot with an inward lip and know we do not need to repot it for another two years. It has been in training as a variegated tropical cascade for a LONG time and we do plan on simply breaking the pot with a simple hammer when we do repot. Nothing is forever including "evergreens" Location first, planning next...

Grimmy

So...you feel as long as it's been fired for frost elements. Then it would be fine...in an unheated building. Unless one took their own hammer to it. Frost is not an issue...

 

[KennedyMarx]

It's not the cold that breaks the pots exactly. The low fired pots can absorb water and that moisture will freeze and crack the structure. You can see this if you keep anything in terra cotta pots outdoors in the winter.

 

[fourteener]

How about shape? If the lip curls inward will expansion of the soil break even a high fired pot?

I haven't found that to be a problem, but I only buy stoneware.

 

[Don Blackmond]

I don't know. As I said my assumption is due to roots plus strong anchoring wire on Dorothy's. Roots plus smaller mouth on Don's.

Safer to ask them directly though.

My pot was broken because the thick root expanded and the pot could not. The smaller mouth was not an issue in this case. The thick root simply grew outward and had nowhere else to go. The pot popped under the stress.

 

[Don Blackmond]

Check the cracked pot by Don above...you can see the lip outline...maybe the reason why the tree was not repotted for a long while.

The tree was not neglected.

 

[Poink88]

My pot was broken because the thick root expanded and the pot could not. The smaller mouth was not an issue in this case. The thick root simply grew outward and had nowhere else to go. The pot popped under the stress.

Don,

You don't think that if your pot is like Dorothy's that the tree would have lifted/pushed itself up instead? I've seen many trees that did that instead of popping the pot.

I am new and 2 of my ficus Salicaria did. I am sure it will just a matter of time before they popped their pot had they been wired with much thicker wire or if the pot have a small mouth like yours.

 

[Don Blackmond]

It's not the cold that breaks the pots exactly. The low fired pots can absorb water and that moisture will freeze and crack the structure. You can see this if you keep anything in terra cotta pots outdoors in the winter.

This is correct. The pot absorbs water, the water freezes and expands, and the pot cracks or sheds layers.

The issue with the inward lip has to do with wet soil freezing and expanding, pushing outward rather than upward, causing the pot to crack.

 

[edprocoat]

This is correct. The pot absorbs water, the water freezes and expands, and the pot cracks or sheds layers.

The issue with the inward lip has to do with wet soil freezing and expanding, pushing outward rather than upward, causing the pot to crack.

I was going to post this but seen you had already Don. I had a pot break fom just that, and it only had a small curved in lip, almost like a ridge really. The pot froze as it rained all night before and then the next evening it went from 55 degrees down to 18 degrees. The pot developed cracks all around it, and another busted completely. I lost quite a few trees as I was at work and it was only supposed to get down to upper 40's, I didnt get home till 11:30 that night. I do not buy pots with a curved in lip anymore for that reason and the fact that its almost impossible to get a tree out in decent shape when its time to repot. Its amazing how much roots you can lose/damage trying to cut along the inner edge of a pot to remove your tree as the roots circle and zig-zag. I have even busted them to have the ceramic make a huge gash into the root system. It takes a helluva shot to bust one loaded with roots with a hammer!

ed

 

[Cadillactaste]

My pot was broken because the thick root expanded and the pot could not. The smaller mouth was not an issue in this case. The thick root simply grew outward and had nowhere else to go. The pot popped under the stress.

Thanks Don...for replying to this post. Was concerned for the curved pot I have my cherry in. Now...I don't think I will overly concern myself with it.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I was going to post this but seen you had already Don. I had a pot break fom just that, and it only had a small curved in lip, almost like a ridge really. The pot froze as it rained all night before and then the next evening it went from 55 degrees down to 18 degrees. The pot developed cracks all around it, and another busted completely. I lost quite a few trees as I was at work and it was only supposed to get down to upper 40's, I didnt get home till 11:30 that night. I do not buy pots with a curved in lip anymore for that reason and the fact that its almost impossible to get a tree out in decent shape when its time to repot. Its amazing how much roots you can lose/damage trying to cut along the inner edge of a pot to remove your tree as the roots circle and zig-zag. I have even busted them to have the ceramic make a huge gash into the root system. It takes a helluva shot to bust one loaded with roots with a hammer!

ed

Ed...was that pot fired to be frost hardy?

 

[Poink88]

Ed...was that pot fired to be frost hardy?

Darlene,

Being frost hardy doesn't help in that case. Again, freeze hardiness prevent getting broken from water expansion within the pot material itself.

Cracking from ice expansion and root expansion contained in the vessel is a totally different story.

Your plant being inside should not have the same problem that Ed described. You can have what Happened to Don. Again these 2 are also different. Dorothy's case is also different but may also apply to you.