Kepplers contribution for 2016 on sniping and bickering.

GroveKeeper said:
They go out and do.
Click to expand...
Believe me i'm doing. I had the intention of sharing and showing from day 1. I started off asking one simple thing from the people with influence here and everything escalated from there. Its at that stage now that i'm the one being vilified. I'm ok with that though. I can handle that if they only had the balls to step outside their self made auras...
Would you really feel comfortable joining and showing trees while you're being pissed at from all sides....? first things first mate.
 
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QUOTE="Vance Wood, post: 313870, member: 6"]I have yet to see a tree I was promised back a page or two ago when I challenged his real credentials.[/QUOTE]
The real problem isn't about me not posting trees. You know it as well as I. The problem is how you treat new people here. I called you out for that, and none of you had the guts or decency to take responsibility for it, or even attempt to discuss it. The fact that you want me to show trees are meerly an attempted deflection.
If I posted a thousand trees and then called you out for treating others unfairly, would it have made any difference....?
BvF. Instead of playing FBI with my thread postings, why don't you use that energy and make use of your virtual status here by trying to make potential newcomers feel welcome, instead of protecting your ivory tower?
Seeking out snippets from different threads and then using them out of context to build a twisted story, seems a bit cowardly and downright desperate...This site lost at least two new contributors that could've benefitted greatly, and who knows contributed well in future. Both started off on good footing but were antagonized, until they retaliated and then devoured by the mob. You and the rest stood by (and most propably joined in)...Point is it was so easy to make a difference but you and your big 6 chose to do nothing.....yet your biggest concern is me not posting trees. Howz that for priorities...? Hiding behind your broomstick calling me a troll....

JonnG...I did not look for your post...I accidentally stumbled on it. Was very impressed that you asked for the same thing i'm asking now as far back as 2008..... Now it seems you've accepted it and even enjoy a nice joining in on the occasional feast...
Yeah you said one thing to me and then disappeared, setting the wrong tone for the thread. If you just had the decency to explain yourself we could've settled it and made a nice thread from it... One wrong thing said has consequences. You didn't care much did you? I bet you would've if you were on the other end...
Yep strong men these bonsai masters...strong indeed !!!
fredman said:
Believe me i'm doing. I had the intention of sharing and showing from day 1. I started off asking simple thing from the people with influence here and everything escalated from there. Its at that stage now that in the one being vilified. I'm ok with that though.
Would you really feel comfortable joining and showing trees while you're being pissed at from all sides....first things first mate.
Click to expand...
If I felt so alienated, I wouldn't hang around and stoke the coals of arguments.
 
Be at rest mate. I don't feel alianated. There are many good people here that i want to associate with in future
 
Folks,

with all this I wonder if all Al is saying ------------ do you grasp the principle behind what you are being taught ?
Can you apply all that teaching to a seedling or tiny cutting.
Or are you just parroting ?

So far a few have admitted that their past year was crap, and it - seems - as though their emotions filtered into the
conversations.
There seems to be a great deal more than just Bonsai discussion coming to the table.
Well there is my abstract.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Funniest thing is: Sorce's fucking around all over the place, but noone got shit on him, while you guys are yelling "NO YOU ARE THE TROLL" at eachother like your life's depending on it

@sorce ya got it figured out gr8 m8!
 
milehigh_7 said:
I think the prunes kicked in!
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What !


What!

He's alive!


He's alive!

Dude. I thought that dirty sheep tree stealer went and got you man!

Jesus Christ you had me worried.....

What the hell happened to all those desert shrubs?

Lucy.......

Sorce
 
fredman said:
TThe problem is how you treat new people here. I called you out for that, and none of you had the guts or decency to take responsibility for it, or even attempt to discuss it. The fact that you want me to show trees are meerly an attempted deflection.
If I posted a thousand trees and then called you out for treating others unfairly, would it have made any difference....?
BvF. Instead of playing FBI with my thread postings, why don't you use that energy and make use of your virtual status here by trying to make potential newcomers feel welcome, instead of protecting your ivory tower?
Click to expand...

Fredman,
You are wrong.

when I joined a few years ago I was not flamed, not treated poorly and was provided with loads of help from the very people you are insulting.
Vance helped in both my mugo thread and via PM when I sent questions. He wasn't insulting and was far from unwelcoming.
BVF has given me loads of help, so much that you wouldn't believe me. I mean I have PM'd him many times even after he responded in my threads. And after that he even provided his personal email to me to send questions to, which I still repeatedly do because I'm still very new, nervous and trying to find my way. And that has been going on for years now. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Smoke has helped me once or twice via PM but most of all he helped me make sense of why the first trident I had was problematic. he showed me why via use of virts and an explanation. Sounds pretty helpful, yes?
A guy named October who no longer posts is another who helped me loads in my threads and via PM when o first started. Guidance in the form of what to do when and more virts. He does not post, but it has nothing to do with the forum.
Mach5 has also helped me more than one can imagine. We've discussed many topics via PM. He helped me with design, soil, what to do when, provided virts etc. and coordianted to meet him last year at a show, to walk the exhibit and talk about the trees etc. Through meeting him I was even further impressed with him, his artistry and his personality. With his many years experience, he surely didn't have a problem taking the time to talk to a noob trying to find their way in bonsai.

I used to be part of a club, I was even on the board because I was so eager. I enjoyed it but in truth I've learned more from the people you flame than I ever did at my club. And although the club was fun I had to resign and no longer go as it interfered with personal responsibilities. So my only real bonsai interaction is this forum. And I think if you look through the threads I have since I started(I post 90% of my trees, good or bad) you will seem some progress even if it is slow. And that is because people took time out of their day to help out somebody who didn't know shit.

I think the biggest obstacle to anyone getting help is ego. If you want help, stop pretending you know better, and even in the chance you do know, just consider the words of people who have seen thousands of trees and have 20-40 years experience. Hard truth might be a difficult pill to swallow, I know this as much as anyone, but it's almost always the only medicine. So my advice to any noob is, ask questions, post your trees, be polite, don't be easily insulted and keep trying. The helpers will help you.
 
NY is right @fredman .....

I thinks it's because of my perceived "ego" that folks don't readily come and give me tips....cuz I act like I know everything...which I do...of course!
No...really....I HAVE to Fuck up for myself.
It just how I am. So I don't have many questions.....if I do....SEARCH button!

But I'm pretty sure, no....make that positive.....any of these folks would help me if I reached out like that....

I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do anyway....mostly because of the stage I'm in right now....nothing matters till I have material that matters....

Right now....I have been experimenting and jagging around for 5 years!

The winds are changing though!
I smell Smoke...and Smoke farts....
And for some odd reason...Mac and cheese!

Sorce
 
Nybonsai12 said:
Fredman,
You are wrong.

when I joined a few years ago I was not flamed, not treated poorly and was provided with loads of help from the very people you are insulting.
Vance helped in both my mugo thread and via PM when I sent questions. He wasn't insulting and was far from unwelcoming.
BVF has given me loads of help, so much that you wouldn't believe me. I mean I have PM'd him many times even after he responded in my threads. And after that he even provided his personal email to me to send questions to, which I still repeatedly do because I'm still very new, nervous and trying to find my way. And that has been going on for years now. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Smoke has helped me once or twice via PM but most of all he helped me make sense of why the first trident I had was problematic. he showed me why via use of virts and an explanation. Sounds pretty helpful, yes?
A guy named October who no longer posts is another who helped me loads in my threads and via PM when o first started. Guidance in the form of what to do when and more virts. He does not post, but it has nothing to do with the forum.
Mach5 has also helped me more than one can imagine. We've discussed many topics via PM. He helped me with design, soil, what to do when, provided virts etc. and coordianted to meet him last year at a show, to walk the exhibit and talk about the trees etc. Through meeting him I was even further impressed with him, his artistry and his personality. With his many years experience, he surely didn't have a problem taking the time to talk to a noob trying to find their way in bonsai.

I used to be part of a club, I was even on the board because I was so eager. I enjoyed it but in truth I've learned more from the people you flame than I ever did at my club. And although the club was fun I had to resign and no longer go as it interfered with personal responsibilities. So my only real bonsai interaction is this forum. And I think if you look through the threads I have since I started(I post 90% of my trees, good or bad) you will seem some progress even if it is slow. And that is because people took time out of their day to help out somebody who didn't know shit.

I think the biggest obstacle to anyone getting help is ego. If you want help, stop pretending you know better, and even in the chance you do know, just consider the words of people who have seen thousands of trees and have 20-40 years experience. Hard truth might be a difficult pill to swallow, I know this as much as anyone, but it's almost always the only medicine. So my advice to any noob is, ask questions, post your trees, be polite, don't be easily insulted and keep trying. The helpers will help you.
Click to expand...
Attempting to convince someone that they are wrong when they don't believe they are, don't want to hear it, think they have been wronged in some way, etc., ...it's a total waste of time, so why bother. Fred wants something akin to utopia to exist here at B'nut, and likely everywhere else. Unfortunately, it will never be that way here...thank God!...can you imagine how boring this place would be?? Just go over and check out Bonsaistudygroup....crickets... Anyway, this place will survive and thrive with or without Fred. Newbies will come and go. Those who want to learn and have a clue on how to interact with adults will find this place welcoming and enjoyable to spend free time surfing the threads and interacting with the others that frequent the site, which clearly has a wealth of information and hobbyists of all levels of experience. If you show up with a chip on your shoulder attitude, a sense of entitlement, or just don't play nice...well, good luck to you. As others have pointed out, The most advanced hobbyists here are still just that...hobbyists. They have full time jobs, families, and other responsibilities. They aren't paid to participate here, and most certainly aren't paid to "be nice" when someone else is being unreasonable. They choose to share when they do, as they do, while juggling all the other hats they wear during the day, because they love bonsai.
 
You are right Dave. I was just hoping to give an example of how as a noob I received stellar treatment and guidance. Hopefully Fredman can see a different view based off my experience.

And sorry for leaving you out as you have given me countless tips and advice over the years too!!!
 
This only got out of control because of misunderstandings in the other threads...

It started out....

You all thinking Fredman said or meant something he didn't.......for sticking up for an ignorant newb he didn't realize was being ignorant.
Now that everyone has kept pushing....
We lost sight of that beginning....

I want to see Carp Junk.
Just to end this!

Sorce
 
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