Keep it or Cut it?

[Adair M]

Surely you can see the only real difference is that you rode harder on an older tree.

Rode harder, yes. Older tree, maybe, but that doesn’t matter. In fact a younger tree is probably more resilient.

Brian, your root work is very good. It could be even better if you were a little braver.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Rode harder, yes. Older tree, maybe, but that doesn’t matter. In fact a younger tree is probably more resilient.

Brian, your root work is very good. It could be even better if you were a little braver.

Bravery has nothing to do with it Adair. I’ve been repotting this tree annually for 13 years and I know how it responds. I know where it’s boundaries are, and how hard my schedule will allow me to push it. Sure I could take it back to a cutting, but I’d have to take the next 4 weeks off of everything else to tend it.

 

[Carol 83]

Cass Bonsai

About 7 miles from my house, great guys!

 

[0soyoung]

Hmmm ...
Lemme see ...

All those roots were removed with the tweezer shown in @Adair M's first pic?
If so, those were some very unhealthy roots.

Look at the difference in root color:

• Adair's tree
  
• healthy roots on BVF's tree:
  

 

[Adair M]

Hmmm ...
Lemme see ...

All those roots were removed with the tweezer shown in @Adair M's first pic?
If so, those were some very unhealthy roots.

Look at the difference in root color:

• Adair's tree
  
• healthy roots on BVF's tree:
  

Not exactly. The tweezers are used to pull loose soil out from between roots. That picture still shows the root ball with soil.

Brian’s picture was taken after the roots had been washed with water. Completely bare rooted.

If you look at the picture after the full cut back of roots was done, you will see that the feeder roots are about the same color as Brian’s. Brian just keeps a whole lot more of them!

Here’s what will happen:

On my example tree, more structure development is desired. Rather than more ramification. So, to get that, we want more root growth. The roots have a nearly empty pot to grow into. The roots will extend rapidly. And so will the new shoots of twigs. Which will thicken branches.

On Brian’s tree, the roots already pretty much fill the pot. There’s not much soil available, so they will start to circle fairly quickly. Root growth will be contained. This will cause the new shoots to be shorter, have shorter internodes, and smaller leaves. Brian’s method is used when he’s happy with the structure of his tree, and just wants more ramification.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

The younger lady from Brian got a good soaping and watering, the old lady don't like to be wet... Don't see an indication of health issue... I work mostly on younger stock and cut more roots than bvf and a bit less than the example of Adair. It al depends on the situation.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Not exactly. The tweezers are used to pull loose soil out from between roots. That picture still shows the root ball with soil.

Brian’s picture was taken after the roots had been washed with water. Completely bare rooted.

If you look at the picture after the full cut back of roots was done, you will see that the feeder roots are about the same color as Brian’s. Brian just keeps a whole lot more of them!

Here’s what will happen:

On my example tree, more structure development is desired. Rather than more ramification. So, to get that, we want more root growth. The roots have a nearly empty pot to grow into. The roots will extend rapidly. And so will the new shoots of twigs. Which will thicken branches.

On Brian’s tree, the roots already pretty much fill the pot. There’s not much soil available, so they will start to circle fairly quickly. Root growth will be contained. This will cause the new shoots to be shorter, have shorter internodes, and smaller leaves. Brian’s method is used when he’s happy with the structure of his tree, and just wants more ramification.

You continue to demonstrate why my course of action was exactly what was needed for my tree. Thank you. Hopefully that maple you were so brave with is in skilled care. Maybe you can start a new thread and show how it responded.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Sly rascal, for some reason I was under the impression this was your work.

Ryan Neil’s latest podcast is a good conversation with Todd Schlaffer where they get into matching their work severity to the student’s ability to care for the tree later. It would be unwise to reduce an old tree’s roots that severely and send it home with a rank novice. Frank is experienced, so he can nurse the tree through the “brave” repotting he and Boon did. I suspect the next repotting won’t involve as aggressive root reduction, but I’ll be interested to see the results.

 

[Djtommy]

Have you also seen the influence of sun on the white bark forming?
For example this maple, 1 side is quite white where sun is much more directly on it then the opposite side of same area where it is still green.

 

[Paulpash]

Have you also seen the influence of sun on the white bark forming?
For example this maple, 1 side is quite white where sun is much more directly on it then the opposite side of same area where it is still green.
View attachment 185105View attachment 185106

I have noticed this too on some of my maples.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

A shot of about my favorite stage: when the leaves lay out in horizontal layers. I haven’t cut it back yet, but in a couple weeks I will. I’ve noticed that plucking out the center bud as the first pair of leaves is opening seems to weaken the interior of the tree. I have stopped doing it over the last few years, in favor of letting the tree flush out then cutting it back. When I get ready to exhibit it again, I will start that bud pinching technique again for a couple years.

The graft is doing ok, but I had hoped to be able to remove it by now. Maybe in the fall.

 

[Vance Wood]

A shot of about my favorite stage: when the leaves lay out in horizontal layers. I haven’t cut it back yet, but in a couple weeks I will. I’ve noticed that plucking out the center bud as the first pair of leaves is opening seems to weaken the interior of the tree. I have stopped doing it over the last few years, in favor of letting the tree flush out then cutting it back. When I get ready to exhibit it again, I will start that bud pinching technique again for a couple years.

The graft is doing ok, but I had hoped to be able to remove it by now. Maybe in the fall.
View attachment 186515

It is a beautiful tree no doubt.

 

[Davidlpf]

Outstanding tree, congratulations!
But IMHO, the pot is a little bit small for that trunk.
Thanks for sharing

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Took some night shots last night. The leaves are staying nice and small so far. Not sure if it’s the really cool April we had, or something else, but everything seems to be very stunted so far this year. Not all bad in bonsai I guess.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here is an update shot. The thread graft is surprisingly slow to thicken. This is year 2 and I don’t think it will be ready to separate for another year. Hopefully next spring it will take off and it will grow well outside the shade of the rest of the tree. Once it grows out and away from the tree, it should be a done deal.

 

[MACH5]

Looking good Bri. Yes that thread graft looks like it's ways out of being ready. I think generally with red varieties these horticultural techniques will take longer to accomplish.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Night shot after pruning it back and arranging a few branches. Really eager to get the graft separated. Maybe in 2019.

 

[MACH5]

I am surprised how long it's taking to fuse. I suppose timing varies with different cultivars. On my big Mirai elm I have a thread graft going that's taking its time also. I don't think I will be able to cut it off until the end of 2019... maybe!

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Congrats

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Repotting time...again...