Juniperus squamata 'Blue Alps'

[amkhalid]

With all the discussion of multiple fronts... at this point in my bonsai life I am a bit of a boring traditionalist in my approach to design/branch placement, or perhaps am not skilled enough to design a tree so that it looks good from multiple sides in real life. To me, a tree that is an "A+" from only one front is better than a tree that is a "B+" from each of multiple fronts.

In real life this tree looks silly from the back because of the attitude (leans way back). To make the current back the front would require radical planting angle adjustments, probably removing at least one major branch, and possibly growing a new apex (according to my design tastes).

 

[Poink88]

To me, a tree that is an "A+" from only one front is better than a tree that is a "B+" from each of multiple fronts.

Beautiful! Exactly what I am trying to convey but you nailed it in just a few words! Thank you.

 

[october]

With all the discussion of multiple fronts... at this point in my bonsai life I am a bit of a boring traditionalist in my approach to design/branch placement, or perhaps am not skilled enough to design a tree so that it looks good from multiple sides in real life. To me, a tree that is an "A+" from only one front is better than a tree that is a "B+" from each of multiple fronts.

In real life this tree looks silly from the back because of the attitude (leans way back). To make the current back the front would require radical planting angle adjustments, probably removing at least one major branch, and possibly growing a new apex (according to my design tastes).

I am also in the traditionalist club. I love and respect the rules of bonsai. The bonsai I create, tend to be very triangular. I have noticed that a well balanced tree, no matter how much some people want to deny it, is usually some sort of triangle. I love the first branch, second branch, back branch etc format. Pads and proper structure throughout the tree. I do subscribe to whatever is the best look for the tree. However, usually the Japanese aesthetics turn out to be not only the best look, but the best health wise for the tree. Spaces where appropriate for light and air to penetrate. Well structured branching within the pads not only for health, but so you can prune properly for years to come.

amkhalid.. It is absolutely not from lack of skill that you are a traditionalist. It is because you are highly skilled. That makes you a traditionalist.

Rob

 

[Dan W.]

Interesting... I had no idea this was a variety being sold by bonsai nurseries. I got this one at a regular garden center and had never heard of it prior. I would love to see a picture of yours!

I'll post a picture when I get a chance. Mine isn't as far along as yours, but about the same size from what I can tell. Brussel had been growing them for bonsai for several years I think. Actually Marc Noelanders styled a VERY nice larger one for the demo... I was really hoping to win the drawing...lol. No such luck, but I do have pictures of that one somewhere.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wish that can be done easily...and maybe with more experience I will find a way but for now I cannot seem to create proper illusion of depth w/o sacrificing one side. To have flexible (dual or more) fronts I find that I always need to compromise but that is it...a COMPROMISE and not the best possible front. For now, I choose the best possible front, others may go the other way.

Multiple front might work well with broom style though.

You cannot create the illusion of depth because depth is not an illusion if it is not there you cannot make it appear to be there by destroying a feature on another portion of the tree as being expedient to your so called front. I am not saying that a tree should look spectacular 360* but is should look like a tree and not as I mentioned perviously: A Bill Board Bonsai, where there is only one side that is worth looking at, the message board, the rest is nothing but support and structure. Many people design bonsai this way, I used to design bonsai this way.

 

[Poink88]

You cannot create the illusion of depth because depth is not an illusion if it is not there you cannot make it appear to be there by destroying a feature on another portion of the tree as being expedient to your so called front. I am not saying that a tree should look spectacular 360* but is should look like a tree and not as I mentioned perviously: A Bill Board Bonsai, where there is only one side that is worth looking at, the message board, the rest is nothing but support and structure. Many people design bonsai this way, I used to design bonsai this way.

I thought we're done with this...see post #12 - #18 (or you forgot?)

Anyway, it is not the same as a billboard. It is more like a backdrop and frame as I said earlier. No one said to ignore the other sides...rather to make parts of it take supporting role to enhance the chosen front. Something that is difficult if not impossible to create equally well in 360*.

Please read this.

...To me, a tree that is an "A+" from only one front is better than a tree that is a "B+" from each of multiple fronts.

Again, this is my belief and chosen path/approach...feel free to choose yours and that is that.

 

[Poink88]

You cannot create the illusion of depth because depth is not an illusion if it is not there you cannot make it appear to be there by destroying a feature on another portion of the tree as being expedient to your so called front.

Now you are stitching parts of my posts to create a totally different message. I thought you are better than that.

I beg to differ, but I believe you can create illusion of depth. Again, we can agree to disagree on this.

 

[Vance Wood]

Now you are stitching parts of my posts to create a totally different message. I thought you are better than that.

I beg to differ, but I believe you can create illusion of depth. Again, we can agree to disagree on this.

Excuse me!? Would you mind explaining that comment? I'm not trying to make you say anything other than what you have said.

Comments and critique always welcome. No need to sugar coat, brutal truth welcome & encouraged.

Your words my friend. I disagree with you because you are wrong.

 

[monza]

What ever front you use, looks good, you've got some skills amkhalid!

Do you have any pics of what it looked like before you did any work, straight from the nursery?
I assume the first pic in your progression had a serious trimming already?

Another tree for the regular nursery shopping list...

 

[JudyB]

I'm getting pretty worn down on the whole argumentative segment of posting here. How can such a nice posting of a well done tree become such a lightning rod of bashing?!
No wonder that there is less and less informative and educated input on the forum. Makes me tired every time I see another one of these start up. Maybe it's time for a break for me too.

Amkahlid, it's difficult to see the lean that you see in person in the photos, but I get it, as I have a couple of trees that look like they could be 2 sided, but for that. Keep up the good works...This tree is anything but boring to me.

 

[Poink88]

Excuse me!? Would you mind explaining that comment? I'm not trying to make you say anything other than what you have said.

This...

...you cannot make it appear to be there by destroying a feature on another portion of the tree as being expedient to your so called front.

Vs...what I wrote...

Lets look at the tree in this thread. Nicely done and it can be viewed both from front or back and will look good all around BUT the branches are unmistakeably created to support and frame the chosen front. The back, as nice as it is, cannot compete with the front for now. It can be, if the branches are re-positioned (ruining the current front) but it is NEVER (or rarely) going to be equally good at the same time.

That is what I meant.

 

[Paradox]

Its a beautiful tree. Very nice job indeed. Thank you for sharing it.
I too would like to see some pics of it from when you got it at a nursery.

I spend quite a bit of time nursery crawling and as we know, its difficult to find good material in regular nurserys. Id like to see how it was when you found it as an example because I might be missing potential material without knowing it.

 

[Vance Wood]

This...


Vs...what I wrote...

----and you know this how?????

 

[Poink88]

----and you know this how?????

Please re-read thread from post #11. You seem to be caught in a loop.

Have fun!

 

[amkhalid]

I too would like to see some pics of it from when you got it at a nursery.

I spend quite a bit of time nursery crawling and as we know, its difficult to find good material in regular nurserys. Id like to see how it was when you found it as an example because I might be missing potential material without knowing it.

What ever front you use, looks good, you've got some skills amkhalid!

Do you have any pics of what it looked like before you did any work, straight from the nursery?
I assume the first pic in your progression had a serious trimming already?

Here is the pic showing as purchased. Obviously it is just a bush, so I had to put on the gloves and explore further. This was the best of the batch they had.

I used to do LOTS of nursery crawling. Hours and hours digging through many, many nurseries and I've probably made three really good finds. In my experience it is even harder to find worthy nursery material than it is to find exciting material in the wild. Still, my best and most developed bonsai right now (japanese yew) was a nursery find.

This juniper was only $20 but I want to stress that initial cost isn't important. When you find a rare piece of nursery material, don't be a cheap ass - BUY IT. If it was $100 I still would have bought it. When I found my yew I was like "YUP" and brought it right to the cash register, even though there was no price tag. Although cheaper is of course always better

Also, an older pic from the side showing the lean.

 

[amkhalid]

Another side note. Anyone who knows me will know that I am the biggest Nick Lenz fanboy around. Not just for his "weird stuff". I think his characteristic use of thrusting branches and the silhouettes found in his basic bonsai designs are genius.

From the moment I saw the trunk line of this blue alps juniper, I was inspired to model it after this lovely and subtle common juniper by Nick. Something about the two tress rings very similar to my eye.

 

[october]

I have to say this work is even more outstanding now that I have seen the starting material.

Rob

 

[Paradox]

The thing that stands out about the nursery picture is the trunk and I can understand why you looked. At it more closely and bought it.

Thanks

 

[Dan W.]

Here's Marc's demo Blue Alps Juni from Brussels in 2011. Mine isn't nearly as nice, so I'll share his and start my own thread for mine... hopefully with some work done soon! I'll share a link here when I get it up.

 

[october]

Here's Marc's demo Blue Alps Juni from Brussels in 2011. Mine isn't nearly as nice, so I'll share his and start my own thread for mine... hopefully with some work done soon! I'll share a link here when I get it up.

Wow..I love this tree. It is absolutely beautiful.

Rob