is this a reasonable step by step black pine tutorial?

so this is a pine I love...
of course I am not expecting to achieve something like that. BUT I would love something even close look something similar maybe! LOL

so would like to do initial bending aiming that way.

This would not be that hard to grow given that the proportion of the trunk is not that great to the size of the branching. It's not super-old based on the bark but it's probably more than 40 years old.

Take a look at Jonas' blog on wiring two year old pines as a place to start. When you're planning to make larger trees it's best to add gentle movement to the trunk.

http://bonsaitonight.com/2013/03/29/wiring-3-year-old-black-pines/

I'd go sparingly on the fertilizer for a few years so that your node length isn't too long. Or use lots of ferts and then, middle of year three, after the new terminal bud starts to form cut off the top of the candle, not the whole thing. This will eliminate the node and cause needle buds to come out. Thin those in the fall.

Be careful to eliminate whorls before they form on young trees. Wire new growth to form your trunk sections.

Don't decandle unless something is getting too long compared to other things. Decandling is a refinement technique and is only used sparingly during trunk creation. You can decandle branches to make them shorter while you grow the trunk, but don't do it every year because they'll get weak. The hormone from the sacrifice branch will control the side growth by itself much of the time.

Cut back the sacrifice partially if the side branches get weak to rebalance.

Good luck.
 
thanks a lot! that is hard to comprehend... perhaps I do not know enough about pines yet to understand completely. I will be back to re-re-re-re-read that a bunch of times.
 
So, Max - I got to thinking about this and decided to write something down that I'd been intending to write anyway - with some photos and illustrations to make the process seem a bit more clear hopefully. It's basically what I already outlined but with a bit more detail.

It's on my blog here:

http://www.phutu.com/?p=293

Maybe that will help you and/or some other people.

Cheers,

Eric
 
WOW
jaw-drop.jpg


Thanks!!
 
This is exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. I have about 20 18 month old black pine seedlings. There are a few things that need to be addressed on them but I'm not quite sure how to proceed. Your post has been a great help but I still have several questions.

My seedlings have grown very vigorously this year. Some have pushed a second flush of growth already formed whorls. Would it be appropriate to reduce these now or wait till spring?

Is there a rule of thumb on how to reduce the number of buds at a given node? There are several cases where I have 6 or 7 buds at the same location. What should I keep in mind when I choose which buds to keep?

I received my seedlings bare root this spring. When I got them I put them in nursery pots. Would it be better to leave them those containers to grow another season or should i repot into colanders in the spring?
 
My seedlings have grown very vigorously this year. Some have pushed a second flush of growth already formed whorls. Would it be appropriate to reduce these now or wait till spring?

I would reduce the whorl of buds as I described in the article now rather than waiting until spring. This makes it less likely you will get reverse taper at the node. I took the photos this week on a two year old tree.

If you get reverse taper anyway, wait until middle of spring next year and remove the growth to just below the whorl. The tree will send out needle buds. Thin the needle buds and re-start the sacrifice branch process. This will slow down the growth of the trunk significantly, but there's no point in having a large trunk if it's got reverse taper and other flaws.

Is there a rule of thumb on how to reduce the number of buds at a given node? There are several cases where I have 6 or 7 buds at the same location. What should I keep in mind when I choose which buds to keep?

Leave the central bud, which would normally be the largest, but sometimes the side buds elongate during the summer when a tree is very strong. Remove all but one of the buds around the central bud. You'll have to use scissors to remove them if they've elongated. I would keep one of the smaller buds on what you think will be the left or right side of the finished tree, perhaps just slightly forward of 90 degrees from the front. This can be the first branch on the tree in a medium size composition.

If you have a really strong whorl where there are 6, 7 (I've even seen as many as 15 buds), remove them as soon as they're large enough.

The problem with keeping whorls is that the space between them is pretty large in most cases. The 2-year whorl is a prime candidate to keep because it's only 8-14" above the base. But the 3-year whorl is then 16-24" above the soil and would only be kept for very large bonsai trees. It's typically better to relegate the 3-year whorl to part of the sacrifice branch or remove it as I suggest in the scenario in the article.

If you bend over the third year growth and use the side bud as the next trunk section you'll have a better scenario for internode length moving forward. The dominant central bud will grow out and get to vertical again and the side bud facing up will gain some strength, but it will remain shorter than the main leader. Thin the buds in that the following fall and then start treating it like the top. You would wire it, select another sacrifice after a couple years and then once that branch takes off enough encourage it by reducing the first sacrifice branch.

I received my seedlings bare root this spring. When I got them I put them in nursery pots. Would it be better to leave them those containers to grow another season or should i repot into colanders in the spring?

I guess that depends on the size of the nursery containers, the soil and how your root trimming was done. I feel it's generally better to correct problems sooner rather than later. So if you think your roots are going to be a problem repot at your next opportunity.

I could write a whole other article on how to keep on top of the root development. When you do root work on the 2-year olds you're removing something like 80% of the roots. Then you try to flatten them out and arrange them in the basket such that as they get larger they're not crossing etc.

Inevitably, some roots are crossing and have to be removed. Others look awkward, are slightly too high on the trunk or have some other problem and also have to be removed. The good thing is that if you remove them around year 4-5 then the later fattening of the trunk will heal over the cuts and you'll have a better base for it.

Don't use wire on the young root to anchor the tree in the containers - I use a set of guy wires from the wire wrapped around the trunk to the colander edges so that there is no wire below the surface to cut into the roots as they enlarge.
 
Hi,
So, I have a JBP seedling that is about 10" tall and is 2 years old. I read in my mastering pines book about creating JBP cascade bonsai. They basically let a seedling grow very tall, then a little shoot grew near the trunk. Then they wired the old shoot and the new little shoot is now the apex.
Would this method work? or is there better out there? I want to create a medium cascade JBP. And also should I pinch out buds now? My JBP looks almost exactly as yours in the recent article you posted.
Thanks,
Porter
 
I think that's a good idea. The small shoots that start at the base are a good way to create an apex while bending down the strong bud to be the cascade. You increase the balance in the tree when you do that.

You can see that I did this on this tree below. The small buds at the top of the photo are the buds at the base of the seedling while everything below is the stronger growth from the shoot that was initially vertical

14477431595_5d8d0c5f96_b.jpg


Here's the tree from the other side. The sacrifice branch has been reduced but is growing strongly from the bottom. In the future the top will likely be made from the small buds that you mention while the lower branches will come from the weak buds that are near the middle of the growing basket in the photo.

14476137812_5403725440_b.jpg
 
Thanks, you answered all of my questions and some that I didn't even ask.

I do have one more though. Does the size of the colander / pond basket matter? The bonsai today article calls for 6" colanders. I can get either 8" colanders or 10" pond baskets easily. I understand the issues associated with large volume containers but does this still hold true for open sided containers?

I could write a whole other article on how to keep on top of the root development.

Please do. There is just not a lot of this kind of information out there. Anything that you could add would be greatly appreciated.
 
I've never had a bad experience with a "too big" container. I understand that it takes roots time to colonize a large container and that too much water can be present. Bonsai soil is meant to minimize over watering dangers as are mesh sided containers.

As you can see in some of my photos, I originally used 10" pond baskets. They have a flat bottom that will hold slightly more water than a curved-bottom colander. There is some debate between myself, Jonas, Daisaku Nomoto, and a couple other growers in Japan about whether pines actually benefit in some cases from "too much" water.

When I placed the 2- year olds in the pond baskets they were well over-potted. It took them less than a year to colonize the entire pot with roots. If these were shimpaku I would expect it would take much longer to occupy the entire container. From the winter after the second growing season for the next two years the trees all grew in the 10" baskets. At that point, if I recall correctly, I placed a couple of them inside larger baskets, the 14" size I believe. Most stayed just in the smaller basket for a third year. During the 5th growing season I put more into larger baskets, some were just nestled in, others slipped out and placed without root work.

Bottom line - I'd use a 10" basket again after the second growing season - then pot up into a larger basket or container with minimal root work after the 4th growing season. Be sure to remove the crust from the top of the soil periodically to maintain good drainage.

This all assumes that the trees grow like crazy as they should under good conditions and good care.
 
Eric,

Do you know when Daisaku Nomoto is coming back this year?
 
He's usually around for the month leading up to the show. So mid-December through mid-January. I've been meaning to ask Boon anyway since I'd like to take a workshop from him - Daisaku, again. I'll be at the BIB meeting tonight so if I can remember I'll find out from Boon, it wasn't announced in the newsletter yesterday.
 
Interesting... I'm hoping to have the tree that's my avatar ready for the show this year. The meetings aren't at Boon's are they? If they are, could you check up on it? Boon usually keeps it on the right side, looking from the deck, on the second row. Last I saw of it, it was budding profusely after the decandling I gave it in June.
 
Meetings are usually in Alameda. But I'll be at Boon's place next Sunday. Actually, can you post a larger photo, I can't quite make out the lower trunk from the avatar size image.
 
Adair, I am surprised you don't have a webcam on your pine at Boon's place so you can check on it remotely - the pine_cam...... :)

Frank
 
Frank, that's a great idea! I'd love to have cam there! There are so many incredible trees there, we'd need lots of cams!

Here's what it looked like right after decandling.

The pot is pretty distinctive, too.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1405 (2).jpg
    IMG_1405 (2).jpg
    193.3 KB · Views: 41
Stay away from the Pines book from Stone Lantern for the reasons Adair said. Buy Boon's DVDs for a much better year-round tutorial.
 
Stay away from the Pines book from Stone Lantern for the reasons Adair said. Buy Boon's DVDs for a much better year-round tutorial.

I wouldn't go as far as saying stay away. It is a very informative book but you must understand what it is and what it is not.

I am still saving up my milk money to buy the set of DVD's.
 
Back
Top Bottom