Saddler
Chumono
Thanks, I appreciate that you put a bit of context to it. Do you get the full back catalogue of videos with the subscription or do you only get what’s live and for how long can you watch it?
Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?
- Thread starter BillsBayou
- Start date
Saddler
Chumono
Maybe you could go back through 14 pages and collect all the comments of substance regarding the subscription because “I like it” and “it’s worth it” have almost zero usefulness and I'm not seeing it.
I have to ask, with more then a million flavours out there, why do you go and pick salty?
ihaveaspaceship
Shohin
Tier2 gets you unlimited reviews of past videos + live streams. There are some tier 3 videos that I can't watch, but I don't recall there being a whole lot of them. Ryan also has a lot of plant education so its a great source for horticultural info. Its mainly what im looking for.
Saddler
Chumono
I’m not sure what you are telling me, but I laughed a little at those.
ihaveaspaceship
Shohin
I also don't think you have to sub for a whole year. You can try it out for a month or 2...I think?
Saddler
Chumono
What I am thinking is waiting a year or three until I have the material to justify the purchase and binge watch all the old content. $30 or whatever it is for a month to watch a couple years worth of videos makes it a much better proposition.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Bonsai Nut posted a number of good reviews on the first couple of pages of this thread - look at post 8 for example. I wrote a very short summary on post 61 I think. There were several others, but you'll have to put in the legwork to find them, I'm not doing it for you.
Tier 1 level gets you access to the live streams, but only when they are live. No access to the archive.
Tier 2 level gets you access to the live streams and permanent access to the archives, so you can go back and watch them whenever you want.
Tier 3 adds the chat function so you can interact and ask questions during the streams, also access to live Q&A sessions which are usually done once a week, plus some other content.
I think tier 2 is the best deal
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
And yes, you can pay by the month...so you could buy tier 3 subscription and watch everything in the archive, then cancel. In fact, if you could watch everything in 1 week, I think you could cancel and have paid only for one week.
Saddler
Chumono
Mike Hennigan
Chumono
I’ve been reading Al’s post on here for the last five years. I consider many of his progression threads to be some of the most valuable threads on this forum. I don’t know, maybe I’m just confused about why he posted a really heartfelt thread announcing his “retirement” from this forum and then immediately created the new username bananaman to continue antagonize the forum. He just doesn’t seem like a very mentally stable person to me. I’m here to talk about bonsai, and he’s constantly in the way of that lately. And when I say bonsai, I mean trees. Not bonsai politics or actual politics or whatever garbage we’re all slinging at each other right now.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
You still dont get it.
What hes done is to be a disruptor. He is disrupting mirai subscribers. Making them ask themselves if they are actually getting something from these videos.
And they arent liking it. Nobody likes to be put on the spot when they got nothing to show for the money wasted on anything.
So they attack the questioner. They attack his knowledge and here they've even attacked his mental stability.
What these people are really doing is answering his questions without even knowing it. By attacking him,instead of saying they really didnt get much from them or by showing trees that they have used things theyve just learned from these videos,people have shown how much exactly they've learned from these mirai videos. These reactions really show how much people dont like being shown theyve wasted their money.
It's like the thread on waiting until leaves have hardened off before pruning. Nobody could answer him there either.
This man knows stuff. People need to think about the questions hes asking real well before spouting off about how he is just trying to get them mad on purpose. Deep inside they know the answers but dont want to admit it.
Now I know that some people think that Ryan Neel is the shit. Just back from Japan. Knows things only the Japanese know. The newest techniques. The latest knowledge from the great bonsai land to the east. He might magically transform video watchers into bonsai masters themselves overnight.
The same happened when Boon came back. He was the greatest. He now knew things nobody but the Japanese masters know. Same thing as Neil. The latest and greatest techniques,the latest knowledge. Hell he even named a substrate combination after himself. Or his students did.Boons mix. Akadama,pumice and lava. Only the best bonsai in the world are in this mix. Other substrates are sub par. If you arent using akadama you arent doing bonsai right. Your trees will suffer and won't reach their true potential. People are now finding out that akadama might not be so great. Even Ryan Neil is looking into D.E.now. Something I and others have known for a few years now. Its superior in every way to akadama.
What I'm getting at is this.
I think Al is too.
Spending money on a teacher or videos is fine. Just keep your eyes and mind open. These guys dont know everything you think they do. Knowledge can come from other sources. But most of all,get outside. Work on your trees. Learn and figure things out for yourself. In the end you will take more pride in your trees because you're intimate with your trees. You figured out how to keep it alive and turn it into something you like for your pleasure. After a bit you realize,maybe Al was right. I learned more by just spending time with my own trees than by watching all the videos in the world.
That's what hes trying to do. Get people to spend time with their trees. You can be your own best teacher.
My hats off to Smoke. He'll always be Smoke to me no matter how many times he changes his user name. He got wracked by members here for being himself and doing what he does best. He schooled a bunch of people here even when they fought it. Called him names. Brought his sanity into question. Questioned his knowledge. He really kept his cool.
Showed once again why he is at the top of the bonsai heap. No matter what other members may think.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I guess it all boils down to results. If you are out there on this forum and can regularly produce the kind of trees Ryan produces, and offer the kind of education and experience Ryan produces then you don't need the $300 a year for his advanced material.
That’s all, just hoped you would laugh? politics are only worth laughing at in my eyes.
Happy Bonsai
Mike Hennigan
Chumono
Fair enough.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Any thing that gets you off your ass and out into the yard or nursery with a hand full of wire, some tools, a tree and an idea is worth what you pay for it, regardless of how much or how little. If seeing a bonsai made from raw material into a masterpiece moves you and you can watch it over and over again and learn how the design was concieved is worth what you pay for it, regardless of how much or how little. If this does not move you and motivate you to do bonsai you ought to consider yourself and where you stand. Remember this stuff does not come to you, most of the time, in a dream with the subsequent enablement as a mystical gift from the bonsai gods. What matters is you getting your hands dirty and doing bonsai. You try to do this stuff you have seen you make mistakes and then you find out why and correct the mistake.
I don't know how often I have set with a student and saw what should have, or could have been done to make a tree into a bonsai while the student didn't have a clue what was going on, their minds wandering off into what ever. I have had students with a lot of experience, even in decades, that were as oblivious at visualizing potential beyond cascade or wind swept than many of the newbies. Others stil, being buried in meaningless and fanciful ideas gleaned from smoke and liquor are about as useful as the one who has no idea at all. I don't mean to be critical just honest. Some people are too busy in their every day lives to be busy with bonsai. No criticizm just and an honest assessment in my opinion. Condemning the $300 dollars a year for this kind of education seems to me to be an excuse for not achieving any goals of your own. It also eliminates the necessity of giving credit or the opportunity to assign blame. BUT: He who does nothing has no one to blame but himself for the failures this is what is called paucity, knowing what to do but desiring to not do it.
I don't know how often I have set with a student and saw what should have, or could have been done to make a tree into a bonsai while the student didn't have a clue what was going on, their minds wandering off into what ever. I have had students with a lot of experience, even in decades, that were as oblivious at visualizing potential beyond cascade or wind swept than many of the newbies. Others stil, being buried in meaningless and fanciful ideas gleaned from smoke and liquor are about as useful as the one who has no idea at all. I don't mean to be critical just honest. Some people are too busy in their every day lives to be busy with bonsai. No criticizm just and an honest assessment in my opinion. Condemning the $300 dollars a year for this kind of education seems to me to be an excuse for not achieving any goals of your own. It also eliminates the necessity of giving credit or the opportunity to assign blame. BUT: He who does nothing has no one to blame but himself for the failures this is what is called paucity, knowing what to do but desiring to not do it.
MrWunderful
Omono
I also pay for mirai (tier 3), and am very satisfied with my “investment” in my bonsai knowledge.
I could probably learn more from going to one bonsai club meet a month for 40 years, but That is a lot of time.
The value in mirai live for me is being able to access well done informational videos at anytime, anywhere.
Of course I would love to be working on my trees all day everyday. But I have a job, so I cant. But I can listen to a video on my commute, or pull up a blog post quickly on my break.
Mirai live goes in far deeper to species specific techniques than anything else ive seen.
I look forward to his weekly videos.
I think mirai gets a lot of hate because Ryan is very successful at doing what a lot of people wish they could, Making teaching bonsai profitable by bringing it into the “youtube” age. If you dont have haters, you arent doing it right!
I could probably learn more from going to one bonsai club meet a month for 40 years, but That is a lot of time.
The value in mirai live for me is being able to access well done informational videos at anytime, anywhere.
Of course I would love to be working on my trees all day everyday. But I have a job, so I cant. But I can listen to a video on my commute, or pull up a blog post quickly on my break.
Mirai live goes in far deeper to species specific techniques than anything else ive seen.
I look forward to his weekly videos.
I think mirai gets a lot of hate because Ryan is very successful at doing what a lot of people wish they could, Making teaching bonsai profitable by bringing it into the “youtube” age. If you dont have haters, you arent doing it right!
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Good summary.
It's funny, I don't see any mirai subscribers here questioning themselves or their investment because of what Al has written. Anyone? Come on, fess up if you're out there! I've said it many times before - of course you have to do the work and apply what you are learning. Doesn't that go without saying?
Here's what I've seen over the past few years on this forum: for the longest time Al was the "guru" on this forum. People worshipped him and he could get away with saying anything to anyone. But over the past few years that started to change. Boon came back from Japan and developed a group of loyal students who started sharing information. Then Ryan came back and started offering his online courses. Suddenly people were talking about Boon and Ryan and Mirai, and asking for advice from Adair (Boon student) and others, instead of groveling at Smoke's feet. In fact, some started actually calling him out for his obnoxious behavior on the forum. And that has lead to where we are today - a bitter guy who is repeatedly lashing out in a feeble attempt to boost his own ego. I mean, look at his own tag line: "My value doesn't decrease because of someones inability to see my worth.....", it's hard to see your worth through the shitstorms that you've repeatedly created.
Maybe I'm wrong and he just does this purely for his own amusement. I'm not sure which is worse but neither really benefits the forum.
Al lives in an area (or near the area) where bonsai first started in the US. So, access to experienced bonsai practitioners was fairly common for him. For Al, seeing Naka and Oki and whomever, was no big deal as they were local.
Back here on the East Coast, we had to fly those guys out. We had to get on a waiting list to be able to get one of the workshop spaces with Naka! And we only got to see him once a year, for a 1/2 day workshop!
There was no internet, hardly any videos (on tape), or anything other than books for education. Bill Valavanis started publishing International Bonsai in 1979, with articles in English that were translated Japanese magazine articles. We were, stumbling in the dark.
I remember seeing the publication the California Bonsai Association put out. Golden Something or ever. The trees pictured (mostly California Juniper) didn’t even look real! We had no trees that remotely resembled them!
And, I lived in Atlanta. A reasonably large city, but with very little Asian influence.
Now, I figure that most of us who don’t live in California (or Pacific Northwest) still don’t have access to the experienced pros (or experienced hobbiests) like there are in California. Most can’t afford to do like I do and travel to California several times a year to study bonsai. But a service like what Ryan is providing is the next best thing.
I fly Southwest to get to California, and $300 won’t even buy a round trip ticket!
Al has said many time he lives in bonsai Mecca. That he had easy access to the great Masters.
Most of us don’t.
Back here on the East Coast, we had to fly those guys out. We had to get on a waiting list to be able to get one of the workshop spaces with Naka! And we only got to see him once a year, for a 1/2 day workshop!
There was no internet, hardly any videos (on tape), or anything other than books for education. Bill Valavanis started publishing International Bonsai in 1979, with articles in English that were translated Japanese magazine articles. We were, stumbling in the dark.
I remember seeing the publication the California Bonsai Association put out. Golden Something or ever. The trees pictured (mostly California Juniper) didn’t even look real! We had no trees that remotely resembled them!
And, I lived in Atlanta. A reasonably large city, but with very little Asian influence.
Now, I figure that most of us who don’t live in California (or Pacific Northwest) still don’t have access to the experienced pros (or experienced hobbiests) like there are in California. Most can’t afford to do like I do and travel to California several times a year to study bonsai. But a service like what Ryan is providing is the next best thing.
I fly Southwest to get to California, and $300 won’t even buy a round trip ticket!
Al has said many time he lives in bonsai Mecca. That he had easy access to the great Masters.
Most of us don’t.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
70's to 80's
Chase Rosade, Vaughn Banting, William Valavannis, the two Mary's of Florida,
Yoji Yoshimura -his students, are the ones I met or knew of.
Lot of knowledge there.
Good Day
Anthony
Chase Rosade, Vaughn Banting, William Valavannis, the two Mary's of Florida,
Yoji Yoshimura -his students, are the ones I met or knew of.
Lot of knowledge there.
Good Day
Anthony
So, you met those guys, and all you do is water the trees?
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