Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?

[Anthony]

Ha ha Sifu,

remember I also took art appreciation classes in the UK.
So when I weed and water, I am well informed.

You need to understand this --------- my life has been
one of achievements, I am content.
And I am still inventing.

Sifu, I am a simple guy. I read, I do and I make.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Good Day
Anthony

* hey the other day another Bnutter, teased me about compost
and gravel --------- response was microbes and hydroponics.
Lush trees in all tested with this soil.
K.I.S.S.

Now off to make Shrimp Wontons - soup and fried for lunch.

 

[Aeast]

300 wasted posts that could have been used for actual bonsai information.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I'm a fan of Al because he gets me thinking by asking questions that I have not asked myself. It gets me thinking deeply about my own trees and how to be better. He usually only takes it to a personal level if someone else does first.
Starting a tree with better material does really help you in the long run. If you're taking classes with $25 trees then you are wasting your money because the topics will be over your skill level. That makes sense to me.

 

[Paulpash]

You still dont get it.
What hes done is to be a disruptor. He is disrupting mirai subscribers. Making them ask themselves if they are actually getting something from these videos.
And they arent liking it. Nobody likes to be put on the spot when they got nothing to show for the money wasted on anything.
So they attack the questioner. They attack his knowledge and here they've even attacked his mental stability.
What these people are really doing is answering his questions without even knowing it. By attacking him,instead of saying they really didnt get much from them or by showing trees that they have used things theyve just learned from these videos,people have shown how much exactly they've learned from these mirai videos. These reactions really show how much people dont like being shown theyve wasted their money.
It's like the thread on waiting until leaves have hardened off before pruning. Nobody could answer him there either.
This man knows stuff. People need to think about the questions hes asking real well before spouting off about how he is just trying to get them mad on purpose. Deep inside they know the answers but dont want to admit it.
Now I know that some people think that Ryan Neel is the shit. Just back from Japan. Knows things only the Japanese know. The newest techniques. The latest knowledge from the great bonsai land to the east. He might magically transform video watchers into bonsai masters themselves overnight.
The same happened when Boon came back. He was the greatest. He now knew things nobody but the Japanese masters know. Same thing as Neil. The latest and greatest techniques,the latest knowledge. Hell he even named a substrate combination after himself. Or his students did.Boons mix. Akadama,pumice and lava. Only the best bonsai in the world are in this mix. Other substrates are sub par. If you arent using akadama you arent doing bonsai right. Your trees will suffer and won't reach their true potential. People are now finding out that akadama might not be so great. Even Ryan Neil is looking into D.E.now. Something I and others have known for a few years now. Its superior in every way to akadama.
What I'm getting at is this.
I think Al is too.
Spending money on a teacher or videos is fine. Just keep your eyes and mind open. These guys dont know everything you think they do. Knowledge can come from other sources. But most of all,get outside. Work on your trees. Learn and figure things out for yourself. In the end you will take more pride in your trees because you're intimate with your trees. You figured out how to keep it alive and turn it into something you like for your pleasure. After a bit you realize,maybe Al was right. I learned more by just spending time with my own trees than by watching all the videos in the world.
That's what hes trying to do. Get people to spend time with their trees. You can be your own best teacher.
My hats off to Smoke. He'll always be Smoke to me no matter how many times he changes his user name. He got wracked by members here for being himself and doing what he does best. He schooled a bunch of people here even when they fought it. Called him names. Brought his sanity into question. Questioned his knowledge. He really kept his cool.
Showed once again why he is at the top of the bonsai heap. No matter what other members may think.

Mike, his question was answered a few pages in......
As for Al recently - he is becoming more well known for his trolling than those great progression threads he USED to spend his time writing. He moans at @Adair M and @markyscott for harping on about Boon but is guilty of the same thing himself - constantly assaulting the pros like some jihadi zealot. Just being kind and respectful sometimes wouldn't do his street cred any damage either and let people decide for themselves.

 

[atlarsenal]

I am a tier 3 member with Mirai. For me it is worth every penny.

Can you go back through 304 post on this thread and find even one person that has posted that they are a member of Mirai and said it wasn’t worth it? Or they tried it and it wasn’t worth a shit and they got out? Or they were dissatisfied with it and quit?

 

[Cable]

I'm a tier 2 subscriber and I think it is worth it. Are my trees great yet? Nope. Am I an expert yet? Nope. That all takes time. Al has been kind enough to give me advice I'm learning from. As has Sorce. And Bnut. And many others. I've also watched videos (Ryan and others) and learned from them. I have a LONG ways to go but I feel like I'm learning and improving from all of these resources.

Sure, I could apprentice somewhere if I wanted to rearrange my life. Or I can read and watch from the comfort of my easy chair on my own schedule and apply the knowledge at my leisure. I'll never be a master that way. I have no intention of becoming a master. How does that make me wrong? And even if it does, why should I care?

 

[MichaelS]

. Even Ryan Neil is looking into D.E.now. Something I and others have known for a few years now. Its superior in every way to akadama.

Not quite correct Mike. He is looking into diatomite because he does not have access to enough cheap akadama. ( only a matter of time until someone starts to harvest the local US stuff and selling it) We have been using diatomite here for about 20 years. It's ok but does not compare to aka for established bonsai. ( not many people here use aka either by the way, and you can see it in their trees - coarser branching) The reason is that DE does not break down to finer particles and especially for deciduous, it's more difficult to get really fine ramification. If you want that, you are better off using the soil from under your feet than diatomite - regardless how fine it is. I agree that for the first 10 or 20 years, diatomite is good - probably better than red clay, but later you will want something softer. Some things HATE diatomite. Quince and apricots for example.

 

[coh]

Not quite correct Mike. He is looking into diatomite because he does not have access to enough cheap akadama. ( only a matter of time until someone starts to harvest the local US stuff and selling it) We have been using diatomite here for about 20 years. It's ok but does not compare to aka for established bonsai. ( not many people here use aka either by the way, and you can see it in their trees - coarser branching) The reason is that DE does not break down to finer particles and especially for deciduous, it's more difficult to get really fine ramification. If you want that, you are better off using the soil from under your feet than diatomite - regardless how fine it is. I agree that for the first 10 or 20 years, diatomite is good - probably better than red clay, but later you will want something softer. Some things HATE diatomite. Quince and apricots for example.

I haven't heard him talk about the cost of akadama being the problem, but rather the quality. He says he brought back a container full of the "good stuff" from Japan and the stuff available today isn't the same. I'm not sure exactly how it is different, maybe softer, or maybe the quality varies too much from batch to batch.

The DE experiment is in progress and there's no guarantee that he'll come to the conclusion that DE is as good or superior to the akadama available today, regardless of what frary claims. As for the issue of akadama being superior to DE for established bonsai - you have to have established/refined trees to be able to appreciate that aspect.

 

[MichaelS]

I haven't heard him talk about the cost of akadama being the problem, but rather the quality. He says he brought back a container full of the "good stuff" from Japan and the stuff available today isn't the same. I'm not sure exactly how it is different, maybe softer, or maybe the quality varies too much from batch to batch.
.

Ok. I was pretty sure he wasn't looking at diatomite because he preferred it.

 

[coh]

Ok. I was pretty sure he wasn't looking at diatomite because he preferred it.

Yeah, I'll be very surprised if he come to the conclusion that DE is superior (or even equal) to akadama.

 

[Adair M]

Importing akadama is not only expensive, it’s a royal pain to do! I get mine from Jonas, and he tells me that it takes about two years from the tiMe he orders it to when it arrives. All kinds of paperwork, approvals, etc. and it has to be paid for in advance.

The tsunami a couple years ago in Japan ruined the best akadama mine in Japan. For a while all that was available was low quality. The more recent batches have been better.

Mike Frary, Michael S is correct about the long term effect of akadama. The fact that it does break down is what makes it unique. Matt Ouwinga has some Maples that he grows in straight akadama that you would not believe were possible.

Australia has akadama. Oregon has it, too. Eventually, someone is going to start mining it, and it will be as inexpensive as it is in Japan. It’s the shipping that runs the cost up.

As for Boon Mix... Boon did not name it. He created it because he was trying to duplicate the mix he used in Japan as best he could. In Japan, they use “river sand”. But Japan is volcanic, so their “river sand” is volcanic. So Boon substituted lava and pumice for “river sand”. And yhere’s Nothing else like akadama.

Interestingly, a guy on the East Coast independently came up with the same formula at about the same time. So, on the West Coast it’s called “Boon Mix”, and east of the Mississippi, it’s “Frank Mix”.

 

[Anthony]

Michael, and Sifu,

have you guys done any research into -

[1] Wires causing damage to the - tubes - of the trunk or
branches ?

]2] When you stop wiring and the plant recovers, the
branchlets become more abundant ?

[3] Fine soil mixes [ 3 mm size ] drains wells, yet holds even
more water, for the roots?
In shallow pots.

The reason I suggest this,

[1] We are presently having to thin the trees to keep the
health up or we get bushes.

[2] When we shifted from 5 mm inorganic to 3 mm inorganic
and dropped the pot depth from 8 mm to 2.5 mm [ 3 to 1 inch ]
what was observed was greater density of leaf or branchlet [
sadly no high grade zelkova cultivars here to make it familiar'to all ]

The 1 trunk to 6 / 5 height also seems to be more than a decorative
feature, for it allows for maximum branchlet growth at that height.

The key thing is the fine soil mix and shallow pot allows for
all we got with a coarser mix in a deeper pot.
Good Day
Anthony

* cultivars also make a BIG difference.

 

[Adair M]

Michael, and Sifu,

have you guys done any research into -

[1] Wires causing damage to the - tubes - of the trunk or
branches ?

]2] When you stop wiring and the plant recovers, the
branchlets become more abundant ?

[3] Fine soil mixes [ 3 mm size ] drains wells, yet holds even
more water, for the roots?
In shallow pots.

The reason I suggest this,

[1] We are presently having to thin the trees to keep the
health up or we get bushes.

[2] When we shifted from 5 mm inorganic to 3 mm inorganic
and dropped the pot depth from 8 mm to 2.5 mm [ 3 to 1 inch ]
what was observed was greater density of leaf or branchlet [
sadly no high grade zelkova cultivars here to make it familiar'to all ]

The 1 trunk to 6 / 5 height also seems to be more than a decorative
feature, for it allows for maximum branchlet growth at that height.

The key thing is the fine soil mix and shallow pot allows for
all we got with a coarser mix in a deeper pot.
Good Day
Anthony

* cultivars also make a BIG difference.

Whoa!!!

Anthony, you may, just may, be beginning to figure out what I’ve been telling you for years!

Leaving wire on too long does cause scarring. Removing wire that has bitten in can cause more damage, especially if you try to cut it out. Unwinding is the least harmful way to do it. Depending upon the species, those places where the bark is damaged may, just may, help induce budding.

Yes, finer soil is conducive to finer twinging. Coarse soil with lots of air pockets encourages roots to grow fast. If roots grow fast, the top grows fast, too. Fast top growth means long internodes. Long internodes is bad for twinging. So, coarse soil yields fast wood production, but poor ramification. In the early days when what you want to create is trunk and main structure branches, that’s what you need.

Smaller grained soil has smaller air pockets, and holds more water. Roots don’t have to grow as much to find water, so they slow down. Slower growing roots means slower growing top growth. Internodes shorten. Short internodes creates twigs closer together. More ramification.

Let’s take this one step farther: consider akadama! It’s inorganic, and over time, it breaks down. This means right after repotting, roots grow fast. But after a bit, the akadama starts to break down, making a coarse soil less coarse. This means roots will slow down. Which means the top growth will slow down, and make shorter internodes, which means the tree gets twiggy!

So now you know how the Japanese can create those incredible super twiggy Zelkova and tridents! They work the root balls to be shallow, use 100% small akadama! Bingo! Works like magic! And they repot every year, or maybe every other year.

I’ve been telling you this for years!

 

[Anthony]

Ah but Sifu,

I don't work by rote, need science to understand.
So telling me without the science will just get me curious
to read.

I thank you for helping.

And we never use wire, save for guy wiring and therefore
have to find a way to understand what happens when you
wire.

Lingnan, needs the plant to healthy /lush in order to be worked on.
Then one can grow and clip.
So you spend more time learning about Health and later
Design.

Lastly, our mix after 30 years does not encourage anything
other than fine feeder roots. [ 5 mm ]
At a finer size [3 mm ]...............................

As usual thank you for the help.
Slow Student
Anthony

 

[hemmy]

Australia has akadama. Oregon has it, too. Eventually, someone is going to start mining it, and it will be as inexpensive as it is in Japan. It’s the shipping that runs the cost up.

It would be great to have a domestic source and it would certainly be cheaper in the PNW and West Coast. But I imagine it would be a similar price as pumice, maybe more since it would be a small operation and not mined for industrial uses. Pumice was unavailable in the large garden centers in the Midwest and still had to be shipped from bonsai sources. Can you get pumice from garden centers on the East Coast?

Jonas has pumice 30% cheaper than Akadama (but he probably also has to sift the pumice). I get unsifted bagged pumice from a SoCal garden store at $8/cubic foot and cheaper in bulk. I would love to pay that for akadama! On Japanese websites it looks like a standard grade and size of Akadama sells for around $8 for 14L or 0.5cuft.

This is a big country and the per unit cost of shipping is still relatively expensive until you are moving (and selling) pallets and truckloads like a large center.

 

[Anthony]

Well Sfu,

if you grasp the principle of what you stated.

[1[ Fine particles as soil ------- when your tree is at the correct stage.

For us after the - refinement box [ our use of over sized plastic bonsai
pots] what you guys call grow boxes.

The soil changes to 3 mm - which for us is a silica based gravel
[ which means low Alkali content - K and P and low Alkaline - Cao, Mgo]
Trinidad's clay soils are mostly acidic.

Volcanic sands -maybe - more Alkali containing.

[2] We started tests on the trees that were the most thirsty - Indoor Oak
and Tamarind.

Soil mix here was silica based gravel - crushed red earthenware brick and
compost.
The inorganics are invulnerable to root or chemical attack.
Should be stable for a million years.

Compost glues itself into the sizes of the inorgnics and eventually
becomes inorganic as well, Though still able to hold water / fertiliser.

So you - may - not need akadama, just durable in soil inorganic particles
at 3 mm.

We shall be making some fired porous clay spheres at 3mm for further
tests. Since the response to the 8 mm by a water hater , local willow ficus
was excellent.

Thus far the J.B.pines love the silica and compost with the porous clay
pots.
So we will be creating a new type of pot. Show you when done and
tested - probably 3 years.
Good Day
Anthony

Indoor oak, internal of pot at less than 1 inch.
Soil at 3 mm and exposure is full sun.
Very thirsty, yet follows the 1 evening, 2 morning watering passes.

Presently having to be pruned every two weeks.
Grows moss continuously.

age - probably close to 15 years.

 

[M. Frary]

DE for established bonsai - you have to have established/refined trees to be able to appreciate that aspect.

What a funny guy.
Knowing full well I dont because I lost almost all trees 3 years ago.
Quite a guy you are there Chris.
And does every bonsai pro use akadama?
Hmmm.
I dont believe Walter Pall does if I'm not mistaken.
I'll check to be sure.
And if what you're saying is true maybe Walter's trees could be even better.
Tell him.

 

[M. Frary]

I checked.
Walter rates turface as a usable substrate even styrofoam pieces as usable bonsai substrate.
Akadama not so much. Calls it questionable at best.

 

[Lorax7]

In the end you will take more pride in your trees because you're intimate with your trees. You figured out how to keep it alive and turn it into something you like for your pleasure.

I don’t think that’s legal in my state. Crimes against nature or something like that.

 

[Bananaman]

It’s legal here in California, in fact encouraged. I think they call um, tree huggers?