Grinder opinions

[berobinson82]

Greetings!

It's about that season to self-Santa and I was looking at some die grinders. I already have a Dremel but I was thinking of biting the bullet and picking up a Makita... As I've no experience with die grinders or grinding bonsai for that matter, I was hoping someone could weigh in that has used multiple tools and has an objective opinion on what works.

Specifically, Makita has a 3.5 amp (up to 25k rpm) and a 6.6 (up to 28k rpm), the latter being almost twice the price.

Dewalt also makes a 3.0 amp @ 25krpm for around the price of the smaller Makita.

So, if'n you have some experience with grinders and don't mind sharing your opinions, I'd be most appreciative.

Follow up question would be, "From whom do you purchase your bits?" I met Dale Cochoy at the Nat'l Arboretum who had a selection but I was not then in the market.

Thanks,

-B

 

[Poink88]

I bought this and I am extremely happy with it.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-GD0600...PIQ2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1351784525&sr=8-3

I like the paddle switch as it provides good safety IMHO.

Re: bits...I have been using 1/4" shank router bits. They work very well for ME. (even Dale Cochoy sells them)

Like these:
http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-5010...f=sr_1_13?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1351785276&sr=1-13

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-04-110-...B9/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1351785452&sr=8-18

WARNING: Some people say it is a no-no but I really do not see why. Note that router bits are rated for much higher rpm. DO NOT USE IT IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT!

Another that I use is this http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-8-Piece...sc_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1351784848&sr=1-1-spell

Note that die grinders are much more powerful than Dremel...it is like comparing a tiny pickup to a dump truck.

Good luck and be safe!

 

[davetree]

I have a Makita 0600 as well. I bought a couple of bits from Dale Cochoy and they cut through the hardest wood like butter. My dremel was nothing compared to this.

 

[rockm]

Before you get all die-grinded up and intent on using exotic bits, go to your nearest WOODWORKING shop and look around (also don't let THOSE guys sell you something either.) It can be an eye-opener if you look at stuff bonsai in mind.

In particular look at Arbortech and "power carving" tools--there are more than a few options that can sometimes offer better (and sometimes less expensive) alternatives to the "die-grinder" or die approach...

This is the woodworker's store near me. It's a national franchise.
http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=327

There is also a Woodcraft in Glen Allen. I'm sure there are other options down near Richmond too.

Also, if you want to test drive an Arbortech, let me know. I've got one.

FWIW, bonsaiists tend to reinvent the wheel when it comes to carving deadwood. Tools used in other woodworking hobbies, like decoy carving, etc. are just as applicable in bonsai and more readily available. There's no real need to be pirating router bits and forcing them to do jobs they weren't really made for...

 

[berobinson82]

Hmm, thanks guys. Much to consider. Rockm, do many people use those wheel grinders? I can't recall seeing them in the demos I've watched.

 

[rockm]

"Hmm, thanks guys. Much to consider. Rockm, do many people use those wheel grinders? I can't recall seeing them in the demos I've watched."

People gravitate towards die grinders (IMO) because they're thought to be the traditional "correct" tool to use in the U.S. Ask most folks that have them and I'd bet (if they were honest) that they got one because they saw others using them and didn't bother to look a little. They're also mostly easier to get at the local Home Depot.

Take a look at the Automach home page
http://www.automach.com/pages/frame10/index-e.html
http://www.automach.com/pages/frame31/prod7-e.html
Who's that using one (and a mini-grinder)? Looks like Kimura to me...BTW, the Autmach reciprocating carver is expensive however.

All this doesn't mean the die grinder isn't a good, applicable, inexpensive tool for bonsai. It means there are alternatives out there that might do a better job...if you get past the "so-and-so uses one, I have to have one" thing.

 

[Poink88]

FYI, I have 2 Arbortech mini grinders (one set and one just the attachment kit)...but I prefer using the die grinder. Unless you have really huge trees w/ massive deadwood, they are just not that practical to use IMHO.

If I can have only one power carving tool at this stage, it will be the die grinder. Again JMHO.

EDIT IN: If you still want an Arbortech, let me know...I have the mini attachment kit (new) I am itching to sell LOL You do need a grinder to attach it to.

http://www.arbortech.com.au/view/woodworking/mini-grinder/

 

[rockm]

Like I said, investigate options and don't buy just because others say they love something. Look at alternatives.

 

[Poink88]

Like I said, investigate options and don't buy just because others say they love something. Look at alternatives.

And I agree. It is a very wise advise.

 

[PaulH]

I've used a single speed Makita with router bits and burrs from Woodcraft for years. BUT, after seeing Kevin Willson's carving demos at the GSBF convention last week I now have some Samurai bits coming. It is amazing what those things can do.
The other tool I find very useful is the Lancelot chainsaw wheel on an angle grinder. Its great for quickly removing a lot of wood.

 

[Poink88]

I have a new Lacelot wheel I am itching to sell too.

The bits from UK (Samurai series and Graham Potter's series) must be a dream to use but they sure cost a lot.

EDIT IN:
I just checked the specs for the Samurai and I find it dis-concerning that it is only rated for 15,000 rpm. Most die grinders go past that. Too many parts also make it less ideal in my book...since it is revolving at very high speed.
http://www.samurai.nl/index.html?&m=i&t=W&p=samurai&pid=97452951102588

At least Kaizen's series are rated at <25,000 rpm.
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=23_60

 

[Brian Underwood]

I'm a big fan of carving, and die grinders are my favorite to work with, but the arbortech most definitely has it's place. A fellow student just bought a Metabo Die Grinder which has a variable speed knob, which is incredibly nice. It's like a giant Dremel. I've also worked with battery powered grinders, but they die pretty quick.

Dale Cochoy is my supplier at the moment, but he is very difficult to get a hold of, and there are a number of other suppliers (mostly in the UK).

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=23

http://www.samurai.nl/index.html?&m=i&t=W&p=samurai&pid=97452951102588

 

[JudyB]

In looking at the arbortech tools, I am wondering how you could use those types of units in tight spots. I do buy bits there (arbortech) for my dremel, and have been happy with those. They may not last as long as the weasel, but they are not as expensive either.
If someone has experience with the power carving pro4 or the mini carver, I'd like to know how these can be used around corners, and between branches.

 

[Brian Underwood]

It's not easy Judy, and if the bit "grabs" it's pretty easy to accidentally lop off a branch or two. I try to tie foliage and smaller branches out of the way with raffia or twine (wire can damage a bit if you run into it). The Arbortech mini-grinder with a Samurai bit is what I use for really big things, but it's not great for tight spaces, at which point I switch over to the die grinder with a "Terrier" or a "Shogun" bit. It's all very expensive though. If you were to have the ideal setups with the ideal bits, you may end up spending around $1k or so for everything.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Here's an old thread that covers a lot of this, plus bits Dale offers:
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?993-Power-Wood-Carving-Tools&p=12180

My buddy who does a lot of carving on dense wood uses Makita side arm with the lancelot and DeWalt die grinders with samurai bits. He also uses a Foredom with a flex shaft and foot switch. I've used all of them, and they are excellent tools. Brian is right...done right, you need at least these three grinders and a multitude of bits, plus wire brush wheels. You're into $1k easily.

I do far less carving presently, and have a RotoZip with flex shaft, and use the tri-cut bits from Dale, like the samurai, but smaller and cheaper. The bigger tri-cut tool on a 1/4" shank is too big for the flex shaft, but works on the end of the grinder itself. For the carving I do, it's just fine. I'd have to upgrade if I started doing any more massive carving.

One thing I have learned...I'm not naturally good at carving with power tools, using gouges and gravers have produced far more natural results for me.

 

[berobinson82]

Thank you Brian & Brian. Excellent testimonial and thanks for that link.



On an unrelated but related note; I hope Dale is doing well these days and close to being fully mended. Anyone heard from him?

 

[Poink88]

On an unrelated but related note; I hope Dale is doing well these days and close to being fully mended. Anyone heard from him?

We emailed a few weeks back...he is doing great considering what he went through.