Found this masterpiece - what should my plan of action be???

[CWTurner]

icapture,
If you like the looks of that material, maybe others do too. People who pay to live in that HOA (or the public who collectively own the right-of-way), and who enjoy seeing this tree when out walking. They may be devastated to see it missing. You can't know that it is universally ignored.

The only proper thing to do is ask, and accept the answer. If the answer is No, then enjoy the masterpiece where it sits.

CW

 

[Vance Wood]

Bad idea don't do it. From the looks of the trunk I don't think you can get that puppy out of the ground without a back hoe.

 

[coh]

Yea, that meter kind worries me a bit. But lets be honest here, the utility company would hang up on me if I asked for permission and the HOA that most likely owns the hill that the tree is located on would laugh their asses off...then hang up on me. Because of these realities I take the approach of "its better to ask for forgiveness than permission." If I could ask permission I would, but since I cannot I don't.

I would normally say "don't be that guy", but it sounds like you already are that guy. If so, you give the rest of us a bad name.

You might be surprised, if you ask you might get a positive response...especially if you offer to replace it with something "new". Otherwise...don't be that guy.

 

[icapture]

I came here asking not for the ethics of, but advice regarding the removal of a tree. But obviously the temptation to start a debate on the morality of removing an HOA owned tree proved to strong.

This is what puts collection across the board at risk, people feeling justified in committing theft for their own purposes.
You "could" ask permission, you just don't think you need to, or feel like you will get a negative answer. And of course then what? Do you go ahead anyway?
Property rights are property rights, even if you don't agree with them.

False. I realize fully that I should ask for permission. What I also realize is that the answer will be "no" 99% of the time. So why waste my time?

Well, that's a bit on the sleezy side. (It also is stealing.)

Yes, I am aware of that. And no, I am not bothered by stealing a tree that no one has even looked at twice in its 30 year life span.

Hmmm, you're "using" Richard Branson's image as an avatar and now you want to take a tree without permission. Have you ever thought maybe you're giving Bonsai a bad name? Also, the tree is far from a "Masterpiece" so is it really worth it?

You may have a point. I am still assessing the risk/benefit ratio and to those who say the tree isn't worth it may very well be right.

Not trying to validate what the OP is doing by any means and I would never just go did something up without permission. But I just thought about the Japanese collecting trees back in the day. If they collected trees from the mountains that didn't belong to them, but the emperor, wouldn't that be stealing too? I'm sure I am missing something here, because to me the Japanese culture seems highly centered around honor and respect.

You may not agree with my methods, and I am not saying that you do, and so by no means do I think you are in my "camp", but I appreciate your ability to break away from the crowd and take a historical perspective.

if I saw some sucker digging a tree on my property there would be samurai swords swinging and me claiming to be an emperor. Damn right!

I'm with you on that, but like I said, this is a hillside along a road. Not someone's front yard. There is a difference. A very big one.

If it was my property... well let's just say that's what 45 hollow point is for.

See above Yosemite Sam.

This just ain't how we do things hombre... the bonsai community in general values honesty and ethics. We may fuss and fight but most of us don't trespass and steal. The thing is if people carry on like you plan to, none of us well be given permission even when we ask because of the actions of a few like you. Do us all a favor and pick a different hobby.

Ethical? Lets be honest here. At the end of the day we remove trees from nature resulting in regular hikers and animals no longer being able to enjoy them, and if by chance we don't kill the 150 year old living specimen we then sell it for thousands of dollars. Personally I have no problem with this, but I find it funny when poachers like us judge each other.

icapture,
If you like the looks of that material, maybe others do too. People who pay to live in that HOA (or the public who collectively own the right-of-way), and who enjoy seeing this tree when out walking. They may be devastated to see it missing. You can't know that it is universally ignored.

The only proper thing to do is ask, and accept the answer. If the answer is No, then enjoy the masterpiece where it sits.

CW

Funny story. I found this tree on a hillside across from a development:



I pruned it to see how it responded, came back 5 or 6 weeks later to see that the entire area had been cleared and replaced with your typical generic landscape plants. All of them nice and perfectly flawless. Just how people like it. As I said above, lets be honest here guys. I understand that spouting all this "OMG people will be devastated that an old overgrown tree will be gone." sounds great. And it does, everyone here sounds like model citizens, your congressman would be proud. But, the reality of the matter is that when a tree like this gets removed the only way people notice is if I leave a hole. Most times I fill in the hole and bring all the branches with me and no one ever notices or cares. No one goes crying home about their Giving Tree being removed.

Bad idea don't do it. From the looks of the trunk I don't think you can get that puppy out of the ground without a back hoe.

Yea I think you're right. without being able to make a large circle finding live roots could be difficult.

 

[Dav4]

What you are failing to understand (or do and don't care) is that someone, other then you, actually OWNS that tree...and you are trying to justify it's theft. IT'S ILLEGAL TO DIG THIS TREE WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THOSE WHO OWN IT...YOU ARE COMMITTING A CRIME...IF YOU TAKE IT WITHOUT PERMISSION, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL!!!

 

[coh]

Dave, it's obvious that it doesn't matter, he's "that guy". Just look at the quote from his last message:

Most times I fill in the hole and bring all the branches with me and no one ever notices or cares.

He's done this before and in his book, it's OK. It's not going to matter what any of us say.

Hopefully he gets caught/fined/whatever at some point.

 

[Dav4]

Dave, it's obvious that it doesn't matter, he's "that guy". Just look at the quote from his last message:



He's done this before and in his book, it's OK. It's not going to matter what any of us say.

Hopefully he gets caught/fined/whatever at some point.

Well, then the dude's an ass coming on to a public forum looking for us to justify his criminal behavior...schmuck.

 

[crust]

The bush really is not misdemeanor-worthy anyway-- and it looks like a major backbreaking dig. One wise collector told me something that surprisingly has consistently been true for me, "The harder it is to collect the less likely it is to survive".

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Friends... let's focus on the issues and not character bash. I think the OP needs to get permission. It might take a while, but you'll be better off in the long run. Plus you can take your time, explore around the roots, prep the tree, and you'll be much more likely to get a healthy, legal tree, than one that dies on you.

 

[bonsaibp]

If it is ceonothus than it's not worth collecting anyhow even with permission. They are short lived and don't well to pot culture.
permission, etc. aside its not really a good idea to collect something unless you know what it is , how to collect and if it would lend itself to bonsai.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Ok icapture, food for thought.​

Say you dig the tree, get it home, grow it for a year or two and then someone just takes it from your yard? Would you be upset? If they cover the spot in your yard where it was with sticks and leaves is it ok?

The point is that land is owned by someone, they may not care about it, may pay someone to care for it and may not even know the tree is there. But it's irrelevant because no matter what it's not yours. Get permission or move on with your day. Go about it the wrong way, karma will get you, even if Jonny law doesn't.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I don't think he came here to listen to what we had to say. He just wanted to let us know to watch for the bizarre headline "Moron Gets Electrocuted Trying to Steal Bush."

Remember, call before you dig folks!

 

[Redwood Ryan]

You may not agree with my methods, and I am not saying that you do, and so by no means do I think you are in my "camp", but I appreciate your ability to break away from the crowd and take a historical perspective.

I bet I do know who wouldn't agree with your methods. The police.

 

[M. Frary]

"Poachers like us"? You got a mouse in your pocket there? Don't group honest people who collect trees with permission in with your ilk.
When you get caught post some pictures. Of your mug shot. Ought to make for high entertainment!

 

[Vance Wood]

Geez Loueeze guys, this individual does not care about this tree he is troll plain and simple, ------he is either a troll or a fool. At least this community has proved that in the matter of collecting for bonsai ethics are as important as the material involved.

Let's make the assumption that he really is serious and is going to collect this tree no matter. Not knowing all of the parameters involved there is no doubt a relationship between this tree and the power company; it is a little thing called "right of way" where in the utility has access to X amount of land for the application of said utility. These companies are not too friendly to having people dig on their property, initially out of fear of damage to their equipment, and in general just because they can.

Sometimes "Because They Can" will define how this goes down quicker than any other concern. Reason logic and good old fashioned being a nice guy does not enter into the equation. Utilities do not have to defend their right of way in matters like this--you do and guess what-----you will lose.

I know an individual who collects urban trees that seem to be neglected and on what appears to be abandoned property. Finding that actually the property is owned and though the plants are, for the most part useless, are still owned along with the land they grow on. Finding himself in this position on one occasion requested of the land owner permission to remove a tree. She told him no. One week latter he drove by the vacant lot and found that everything had been bush-whacked down to the ground. In essence the lady said no to him and not to the point of saying: "I don't want it but you can't have it either!" That my friend is human nature. If the utility or the owner of the land finds you doing what this thread indicates you are planning to do you just might find yourself in poop deeper than your imagination can contend with.

 

[sorce]

Strategy my friend, strategy.

You talk with the utility folks and the landowner.
The utility company may be the land owner!

You play tree expert and explain how the roots of that tree are eventually going to interfere with the meter and offer them a solution to their problem.

If you don't go about it the right way, you'll friggin blow yourself up, electrocute yourself, Or get bit by a rabid squirrel.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Whoa my early reply, didn't see the whole second page!

Must
Obtain
Rights
Or
Never live again!

Juniper smells are one thing, electrocuted human flesh is another!

What's that Beatles song? Or was it Lennon?

Insta Karma gonna get you.
And they all fry on...

 

[sorce]

And who's the plaid suited guy?

Hitler's father?

 

[sorce]

igetcaptured

Stealing is cold.

Steel is colder.

It took Andy Dufrane 10 years with a rock hammer.

I got a $20 says you can do it with a root hook in 5.!

A tech savvy tree hugger is gonna pull the geotag off that photo. Call the locals and get you!

They always said thieves are stupid.

 

[JudyB]

False. I realize fully that I should ask for permission. What I also realize is that the answer will be "no" 99% of the time. So why waste my time?

Why waste your time? Because its the RIGHT thing to do. Which you obviously don't care about. Perhaps when the next bonsai that gets taken off someones porch/yard is yours, you'll feel differently. Because it's the same thing, whether you want to admit it to yourself or not.