Extended season starting trees indoors

[cmeg1]

3 1/2 months from seed, that's some crazy stuff. Wow.

Yes,Thanks.That is crazy.They can really look nice for such young trees.I went ahead and did a defoliation for some small internodes.I guess I cannot do too many of them this year,although I have done three in one season.Maybe with the co2 fertilization they will have the extra energy to do more than usual.
This hydro room has me spoiled.............How did I wait for Spring every year before?
Spring is still the bomb....these will go outside in Summer and let them approach Autumn and Winter naturally to prepare for dormancy.After a short dormancy I will probably be tempted to bring at least a few of the good ones inside again for the speedy development!
🖐

 

[JeffS73]

CM, your setup is getting serious now! I know Jonas over at BT says make cuttings when the stems go red, but how soon is that? My JBP are 2 weeks old at most, most still haven't cast off their seed cases yet, but the stems are reddening. Is it too soon to cut?

JBP:


Jezo Spruce:


Fermentation based CO2 supplementation!

 

[cmeg1]

CM, your setup is getting serious now! I know Jonas over at BT says make cuttings when the stems go red, but how soon is that? My JBP are 2 weeks old at most, most still haven't cast off their seed cases yet, but the stems are reddening. Is it too soon to cut?

JBP:
View attachment 281366

Jezo Spruce:
View attachment 281367

Fermentation based CO2 supplementation!
View attachment 281368

Thanks! Wait and let them get a bit redder,maybe about 5-7 days from now.Definately makes a differance.I just got a 75% success rate of all radial roots from a batch of 32!
Kind of like the one I circled,the little immatue one for some reason has that proper color .....the stems turn a bit of a brighter red about 3/4 way up stem.Yours are just starting let them get a tad brighter...and after that they start getting woody and lower success rate.Im guessing 5-7 days from now.
They usually redden up in batches

 

[cmeg1]

75% success rate!

I will mimic these condition from now on,unless second batch on the commercial heat mat and 2 t5’s does better.they are a week behind.
For now this batch of 32 is best success rate ever.All radial roots too.24 of them!
So it looks like higher humidity from tray within solid tray(water pooled),and a shorter dome,first 18 days at 85F( or untill I get roots popping) then back down temps to 78F so roots grow faster.Also a single t5 with a specific par intensity of light.Could be the magic....
Sprayed weekly with 5/2 ratio of Fulvic Acid/ Kelp & a tiny bit of Yucca Powder surfectant.POWDERS,so no added nitrates or anything else.
Also hydrated medium around cuttings with the 5/2 foliar spray once I had roots on most ,as a root stimulant.Only does good if there are roots or callous.Also the 5/2 foliar a couple weeks befor taking cuttins and fed a 1:1 ratio clonex at seedling EC about .4or .5. I believe I added goodies to the clonex but calculated ppm’s to keep balanced( if you want the recipe let me know)
Also gave the medium a super low dose of clonex like 1/8 strength or something at the beginning only.
So now I have roots,I wil water with a spray bottle around cuttings a very lite humic acid /seaweed blend at 5:2 ratio with very light dose of clonex,maybe tiny bit of amino acids.And crack the dome slightly on them. This will be on ones I moved to another tray that are nearly ready.I will keep on heat.

after I acclimate for a week I will fertlize lightly with added mono ammonium phosphate to build roots first...just add a pinch to normal fertilization and you have a starter fertilizer.Roots first for 2-3 weeks with low ec fertilizer and added mono ammonium phosphate.....they will be much more vigorous with bigger roots from the start.

 

[JeffS73]

Excellent info, many thanks, its a lot of fun trying to get these little guys going.

 

[cmeg1]

Zelkova stumps.

I know these are water sprouts,but they are essential nontheless.They bursted out and then stalled,but that is a good thing.They are making natural rooting compounds and other processes that are essential to these growing roots.Funny how it is in suspension like this....I mean they are roots I cut into,but certainly no feeders yet really.I took a peak and I did not see any yet....mainly get humic acid and kelp drenches.
Only been two weeks yet,I like these though and if rooting is good I will make more!

 

[cmeg1]

Leaves look very nice
/ also took care of first deficiencies.

These leaves look great.I love letting them just make energy....I also wait till’ the last minute to use more Nitrogen/NPK.I even prefer (until I get better anyway)to limit nitrogen until I see first signs of deficiency,then you can spoon feed the specific nutrient and correct problem very quickly.
In the case below,I deduced it was the very beginnings of Nitrogen deficiency.So I sprayed an ammonium based nitrogen on bottom of leaves...will do twice a week.I also upped nutrient by .1EC and started feeding 3x a week instead of twice.
It is good practice and really the best way to go in hydroponics.That is the way to High Brix plants...else the excess nitrogen will stop Brix accumilation and processes altogether and not good really at all.
High Brix plants are great..thicker leaves full of everything...they almost look moist.As they mature,they are very sturdy...especially with calcium pectate in the mix from the addition of a couple superstar L amino acids.

 

[cmeg1]

Coreana Hornbeam and Zelkova

The Hornbeam are flushing out good it seems.Will be exciting to try cuttings.Not really in intense light.
Zelkova are flushing out too after cutting back and wire.

 

[cmeg1]

Air conditioner/outdoor vents

I am content now.I can keep the room air conditioned at odd times of year when it is too cold to run central ac.Bought a 14000 btu portable that ducts heat outside.Also was able to duct my exhaust fan outside also ,so no stagnant air in the home.The room is again sealed,but not with all the excessive heat as before.I like to keep the tent no hotter than 86 f.........84 is best though.And over 80 with the co2 as some extra heat helps.
Definately a lot of running around the house and seeing which outlets are hooked to which breakers,so I do not overload any one 15 amp breaker.

Now I can crank the lights all the way up and raise them too for better light overlap.
Thank goodness for dimmable lights......dimming lights is a great way to cool down the drivers if they create too much heat in the tent.
I prefer them at max ,so I can raise them higher

 

[LCD35]

Are you growing everything indoors in straight perlite?

 

[cmeg1]

Are you growing everything indoors in straight perlite?

Yes...drain to waste hydro...took a class.Its a bit of an art form......water is the soil!
Why?

 

[LCD35]

Just curious. My own experiences with seedlings, cuttings, propagation I've used 1:1 perlite and peat. Mainly because I'm on the edge of a desert with low humidity, the peat helped it from drying out too quickly

 

[cmeg1]

Wiring Zelkovas

Some of these are getting twiggy.I have several more to do.See how they turn out.

 

[cmeg1]

propagation efforts

here is what I am keeping to propagate....red hawthorne,white chojubai,red chojubai,and also coreana hornbeam.
Had others,but too much and also maples do not do well for some reason indoors....maybe blue light related not sure.An understory tree would probably enjoy amounts of green light that shade produces.
Anyway will take a few cuttings then maybe get these stock plants more vigorous with bigger roots from additional mono ammonium phosphate.
Had to half the co2 down to 600 ppm as the new ventilation to outdoors uses slightly more co2.
Totally better venting everything outdoor with 78-86f throughout day and 58-64% humidity as exhaust turns on every 1/2 hour or so for about 45 seconds.Seems to be dialed in as best I can for now.
Pines look very good.Totally ready to ship these soon to create more room.Will probably sell in the pouches and people can just put a bonch of slices in fabric to trans plant for one season then tear all fabric off next Spring.The extra growing season these are getting would probably be best with a slip pot.
I am thinking of babying one this week to see how the roots look and transplant fully indoors....roots should be killer dense and pruned...maybe even tonight!

 

[cmeg1]

Potted the Mighty One! and Rootpouch pots.

I always call this the Mighty One and will keep it for myself.Out of all seeds of JBP,this was the only one with thick straight needles and thick stem...Better genetics I believe...perhaps better vascular system hence the extra thick stem from seed.So I left it a seedling without cutting to save it....by far the biggest tree I have now at only 5 months.A real testament to hydroponics... And Root pouch pots...just look at that rootball close to the trunk!
Rootpouch rocks!
Love this seedling Pine!
potted into a 1qt Rootpouch.

 

[cmeg1]

a small tent for starters

Always needing more room.Especially for starters or special projects where maybe I want to give special treatment or something to a plant.Will eventually add shelves or something.
I may be able to keep fully sealed.That would be great.I had a vent open,but would not get over 72f,so ai just shut it.Almost 78f now. I only have a single HLG QB 135 board in it.Totally all that is needed though.So much reflection.500 ppfd at over 2’ above canopy.Impressive.
Got an ultrasonic humidifier.I am working out timing with a short cycle timer to get it about right.
Co2 with a 10 lb tank.Should last a while.

 

[cbroad]

Always needing more room

Man, you are really kicking ass with your setups! All of your plants and tech are very impressive!

You should start tinkering with other hydro setups. They can be very low tech and passive, or as complicated as you want. My DWC ficus really took off and I was very surprised with the results. In the beginning I wasn't too sure how a woody plant would respond because there isn't much info out there about it, only really for herbaceous plants.

From my experience, there's something about direct and constant feed of nutrients and oxygen that just make the plants explode. The only light I used was a 4' 4 bulb t5, and the lack of light didn't keep this thing from slowing down!

You have some great stuff going on and you seem to only be gearing up! Good luck and congrats on your new venture!

 

[cmeg1]

Man, you are really kicking ass with your setups! All of your plants and tech are very impressive!

You should start tinkering with other hydro setups. They can be very low tech and passive, or as complicated as you want. My DWC ficus really took off and I was very surprised with the results. In the beginning I wasn't too sure how a woody plant would respond because there isn't much info out there about it, only really for herbaceous plants.

From my experience, there's something about direct and constant feed of nutrients and oxygen that just make the plants explode. The only light I used was a 4' 4 bulb t5, and the lack of light didn't keep this thing from slowing down!

You have some great stuff going on and you seem to only be gearing up! Good luck and congrats on your new venture!

Thanks for the compliment!
I am up for learning new things.I like this new tent because It looks as though I can keep it sealed.Just realized all I have to do is flick a switch in the controler and the little ultrasonic humidifier comes on at set humidity to keep humidity up.Seems every tent is different.If lots of foliage there would be too much humidity.

happy for your efforts with you plants!

 

[cmeg1]

pine seeds and Zelkova


Planted last of the Fw Schumacher seeds.They sprout in a week without any treatment except an overnight kelp soak.
The zelkovas defoliate and wired four days ago are starting to bud.Others I still need to do ......maybe tomorrow.They look a good color........They get fed every other day ......and then plain water in between.I do add potassium and a tad of cal mag and humic acid to the plain water.Potassium deficiency can really sneak up on you with maturing plants if your pushing them.
I may keep these Zelkova for my personal collection.

 

[cmeg1]

trying mini dehumidifiers

these may be what it takes to get a fully sealed tent without having to vent humidity every 30 min.
Then I can ramp up the co2!
My little one is sealed and doing ok. Co2 lasts forever when in a sealed growing environment.
Humidity gets high though,especially with more plants.
These are small enough,they may not make too much heat...I would not be opposed to putting a couple in my big tent.They apparantly have no compressor!

Amazon.com - VIVOSUN 2200ML Auto Defrost Dehumidifier, Ultra-Quiet Dehumidifier with Timer Drain Hose for Basement or Smaller Room -

Amazon.com - VIVOSUN 2200ML Auto Defrost Dehumidifier, Ultra-Quiet Dehumidifier with Timer Drain Hose for Basement or Smaller Room -

www.amazon.com

The little tent is completely sealed with 81 degree temps and up to 69% humidity...humidity is a tad too high for my liking though and will only grow with more plants in the tent.Will try the de-humidifier this evening.Glad I have wiggle room with the temperature because even up to 86f is fine really.

happy overall...a 2.5x2x4.5 tall tent and a single HLG 135 is a great combo...so far......I could also extend another foot or so higher with the kit I recieved to distribute more heat.