0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I think it more akin to a thread graft. But, of course, it is sustained by an approach graft.
Is it a question: how close must this sustaining approach graft be to the butt end of the branch we are going to plug in?
Ebihara maples
- Thread starter markyscott
- Start date
Is it a question: how close must this sustaining approach graft be to the butt end of the branch we are going to plug in?
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
Very exciting! The most anticipated post of 2020! (2021?)
Sergio are the donor and recipient both standard Acer Pamatum? David E. was telling me this weekend that if you use different cultivars to do it (e.g. beni chidori branches onto a vigorous standard Acer P. trunk), it is possible that the graft union will get 'lumpy' over time due to the differences in growth-rates of each 'cultivar' (comparison was made to grafting JWP onto JBP). I've seen a few 10 year old thread grafts (not in David's garden) where it is possible that this is happening (with deshojo and standard Acer P), but it could just have been less-than-optimal initial thread graft work. Any thoughts? I don't have many old-thread grafts in my area to investigate. I also have not been able to find anybody who can confirm if Ebihara experimented with mixing cultivars
I am not sure. But I personally would not mix cultivars as the bark quality may differ and, to your point, disparate growth rates may produce odd and unexpected swellings, etc. The one I am doing is all from the same tree to avoid potential problems. The maple I am working with is a standard A. palmatum as far as I can tell. Originally imported from Japan and used to be part of the Kennett collection.
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
I'd like to add that my understanding is that these well developed grafted branches will always remain structurally weaker and somewhat less vigorous as compared to the ones that are non grafted on the tree. I was told this by Mr. Urushibata when I went to visit him at Taisho-en.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
I just reread this. Those are some enormous boxes and also quite heavy. The pictures I have seen show many of his trees in boxes but on the ground. This may be why.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Here’s a picture of Ebihara’s growing bed from Bonsai Tonight.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
The thing that always blows my mind is that the trees are just sitting on concrete...
Is that concrete? Or black geofabric?
Saddler
Chumono
If you look closely, there seems to be grass/weeds growing under the edges of the pots. I think the concrete has cut outs for the pots to sit on.
parhamr
Omono
I’ve found setups like this will provide a lot of excellent heat to the roots and it tends to also reduce the latent disease load.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Can you clarify what you mean by " latent disease load."?
parhamr
Omono
I mean the number of plant pathogens (virus, bacteria, insect, etc) and the relative quantities of each. With inert or inorganic substrates below my trees, there is a little less friendly habitat for fungal spores to hang out and spread. With dirt and grass below my trees, especially in places with organic debris accumulation, I’ve had issues with verticillium wilt, anthracnose, rusts, whitefly, weevils, borers, and mealybug.
meushi
Mame
That's interesting, because the Kyosuke Gunn article on page 9 (that Boon was handing out) actually says to use plywood
Rough translation of the text in the article:
Figure 10: start with a 2 years old seedling, cutting the tap root and any root above your nebari starting point
Figure 11: Prepare a 6"x6" square of plywood (ベニヤ板 -> veneer board) by making holes
Figure 12: Arrange roots radially and tie down to the holes with wire
Figure 13: what it should look like
Figure 14: place in pot and cover with soil mix... about 1/4" ( 5 mm to 7mm) of soil on top is ideal.
Figure 15: remove from pot and cut back to the edge of the board (the dotted line)
Figure 16: rearrange the roots and tie them down again before placing back in pot. Protect the roots when tying, to avoid scars.
Figure 17: the end result, trim back to the dotted line before repotting
Figure 18: primary branch selection, alternating
Figure 19: secondary branch selection, alternating
Figure 20: secondary branch selection, remove vertical branches (up and down)
I guess Gunn recommends plywood in this case because it's a mame or shohin in training and it will be repotted every season.
MrWunderful
Omono
Tile with multiple holes in it works pretty well too, its just more difficult to prepare. And cant receive nails.
I know he prefers wood because of the ease of installing nails/staples but they rot and degrade over time. Maybe something with a softer plastic.
I know he prefers wood because of the ease of installing nails/staples but they rot and degrade over time. Maybe something with a softer plastic.
That's interesting, because the Kyosuke Gunn article on page 9 (that Boon was handing out) actually says to use plywood
Rough translation of the text in the article:
Figure 10: start with a 2 years old seedling, cutting the tap root and any root above your nebari starting point
Figure 11: Prepare a 6"x6" square of plywood (ベニヤ板 -> veneer board) by making holes
Figure 12: Arrange roots radially and tie down to the holes with wire
Figure 13: what it should look like
Figure 14: place in pot and cover with soil mix... about 1/4" ( 5 mm to 7mm) of soil on top is ideal.
Figure 15: remove from pot and cut back to the edge of the board (the dotted line)
Figure 16: rearrange the roots and tie them down again before placing back in pot. Protect the roots when tying, to avoid scars.
Figure 17: the end result, trim back to the dotted line before repotting
Figure 18: primary branch selection, alternating
Figure 19: secondary branch selection, alternating
Figure 20: secondary branch selection, remove vertical branches (up and down)
I guess Gunn recommends plywood in this case because it's a mame or shohin in training and it will be repotted every season.
Boon can’t read Japanese.
I’m thinking he recommends against plywood because being buried in the ground, it delaminates pretty quickly. It would last a year, but probably not more than two. I used plywood once. It lasted a year, but it was separating, and wouldn’t have still been intact after two, I don’t think.
Woocash
Omono
I currently have a couple on marine ply. If that doesn’t hold, no ply will. I’ll report back in a year or 2.
meushi
Mame
Yup, as I said Gunn can probably get away with it for shohin/mame because he'd actually repot every year.
I made an attempt years ago with a dwarf palmatum and the result was decent enough but not perfect as I didn't screw the tree to the board. The tree ended up spending 3 years in the ground, I pulled it up this spring and only one root went down. It's now back in a growing box, I may repot it next year and screw it to the board.
I just made a batch of plywood boards based on the Gunn article, I'll take pictures when I use them.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
When we were discussing this handout with Boon, the thought was that the plywood made the process adaptable to the root ball, as in the holes could be drilled to match the circumstances. The plywood made this an easier drilling process. Also can be adapted with jute or rafia for tie downs, I have used 3/4 inch plywood and found it works for several seasons. I am not fond of the mold build up on the wet wood . Lately I have experimented with the old melmac plates, ( hard plastic) used upside down. One can drill them and they are very rigid. They also have a gentle curve downward to train the nebari at a good slant. The center portion is a bit thicker to hold the attaching screw. I prefer the mid size 9-10 inch plates for this purpose. Found them in second hand stores cheap in the dish section. Easy to disaffect and reuse.That's interesting, because the Kyosuke Gunn article on page 9 (that Boon was handing out) actually says to use plywood
Rough translation of the text in the article:
Figure 10: start with a 2 years old seedling, cutting the tap root and any root above your nebari starting point
Figure 11: Prepare a 6"x6" square of plywood (ベニヤ板 -> veneer board) by making holes
Figure 12: Arrange roots radially and tie down to the holes with wire
Figure 13: what it should look like
Figure 14: place in pot and cover with soil mix... about 1/4" ( 5 mm to 7mm) of soil on top is ideal.
Figure 15: remove from pot and cut back to the edge of the board (the dotted line)
Figure 16: rearrange the roots and tie them down again before placing back in pot. Protect the roots when tying, to avoid scars.
Figure 17: the end result, trim back to the dotted line before repotting
Figure 18: primary branch selection, alternating
Figure 19: secondary branch selection, alternating
Figure 20: secondary branch selection, remove vertical branches (up and down)
I guess Gunn recommends plywood in this case because it's a mame or shohin in training and it will be repotted every season.
meushi
Mame
You lucky SOBs I haven't seen Boon since Noelanders XI.
I'll keep an eye out for alternative materials to use... worst case I'll rummage through my workshop offcuts pile.
I haven't seen Boon since Noelanders XI.I'll keep an eye out for alternative materials to use... worst case I'll rummage through my workshop offcuts pile.
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
You lucky SOBs
I'll keep an eye out for alternative materials to use... worst case I'll rummage through my workshop offcuts pile.
I use white plastic cutting boards, they are about 3/8 inch thick and are very cheap at Ikea. They can be used over an over. It is tough to get a nail into, but I use a drill and stainless screws to position the roots.
Ohmy222
Shohin
I buy pressure treated plywood and put deck stain on it. Only been doing that for about 2 years but mine were still holding up this year.
