Developing Azalea Material through Drastic Pruning

[JoeR]

I somehow missed your post. The person you referenced is John and he lives a bit further south then you do. You however live further south then me so your season is a bit longer. I just do mine in early spring because I feel it gives them longer to get happy before the winter sets in. As with anything drastic it depends on a few things, plant health, length of "your" growing season, and the type of plant. There are also 1000's of Azaleas and I don't think anyone out there can speak for all the varieties but we can give you "general" tips which you must apply in "your" circumstance.

I am "guessing" you can collect and do a drastic until late spring safely with a healthy plant and good aftercare to answer your question.

Grimmy

It just depends when is considered late spring. 'Literal late spring' for us is very hot and humid. I will hopefully get a chance to find some within three weeks, which is still considered late spring, and chop them up like so. Honestly I don't know what the aftercare would be like. I just chopped and collected an (oak?) and he's just sitting well watered in mostly full sun and he's pushing growth out well, but slloowww. Maybe the same could be done?

 

[barrosinc]

To my understanding, I would do this before the explosive growth of spring, differs in time depending on the variety (kurume or satsuki or others).

 

[GrimLore]

It just depends when is considered late spring. 'Literal late spring' for us is very hot and humid. I will hopefully get a chance to find some within three weeks, which is still considered late spring, and chop them up like so. Honestly I don't know what the aftercare would be like. I just chopped and collected an (oak?) and he's just sitting well watered in mostly full sun and he's pushing growth out well, but slloowww. Maybe the same could be done?

Sooner the better for Azalea then in your area, you will be chopping them down to 3 inches or so and removing most of the root mass. What applies there is the trunk base and health of the plant. Sooner would be better because the plant needs to be established BEFORE winter no matter where you live to increase its chance of doing well in the spring. I would strongly recommend in your case NOT to drop them into full sun. Azalea like damp NOT wet rich organic which will need to drain freely. Going into summer provide the soil and dampness and at best filtered sun for the best chance of success

Grimmy

 

[JoeR]

Sooner the better for Azalea then in your area, you will be chopping them down to 3 inches or so and removing most of the root mass. What applies there is the trunk base and health of the plant. Sooner would be better because the plant needs to be established BEFORE winter no matter where you live to increase its chance of doing well in the spring. I would strongly recommend in your case NOT to drop them into full sun. Azalea like damp NOT wet rich organic which will need to drain freely. Going into summer provide the soil and dampness and at best filtered sun for the best chance of success

Grimmy

So for soil maybe 50/50 perlite and pine bark mix (like Brents) or 33% pumice, 33% pine bark, 33% lava? What do you use?

I have some shade cloth I could use to cover the azalea, if that would work.

 

[Eric Group]

To my understanding, I would do this before the explosive growth of spring, differs in time depending on the variety (kurume or satsuki or others).

You have very mild winters right? I think the biggest consideration- in my experience- is working on them early enough so the tender new shoots that come out from EVERYWHERE are grown out and hardened off well in advance of your first frost. This will take... A few months. So, if your winters are mild/ non existent, it shouldn't matter if you get it done really early or not, but if you wait until close to the winter, it will need protection from anything resembling Frost! Again, I do not know you climate, but that should give you an idea of the wide range of times you have to work with. If you want to work on your tree and have little/ no damage of frost coming soon, it should be fine (assuming it is a healthy tree).

 

[Eric Group]

So for soil maybe 50/50 perlite and pine bark mix (like Brents) or 33% pumice, 33% pine bark, 33% lava? What do you use?

I have some shade cloth I could use to cover the azalea, if that would work.

I think Kanuma is the "golden ticket" when talking about Japanese soil ingredients for Azaleas, but I use a regular bonsai mix (Akadama, pumice, lava) with a little extra Akadama (John, weren't you telling me about a study pertaining to the acidity of Akadama vs Kanuma?), with some peat added (pretty acidic stuff, retains moisture well, both of which Azaleas like!).

Just what I do. Ask 50 people, get 50 answers. I had some bad luck with azaleas about 2 years ago and really changed the way I protect them in the winter, what I pot them in... And haven't had anything but really healthy trees since!

Azaleas especially seem to like a lot of water and acidic, organic soil just fine! So, even a regular potting mix should be fine for most of them until you a re ready to go in a Bonsai pot. They are GOING TO create a fine mat of roots almost irregardless of what they are potted in, so I wouldn't stress about specific materials too much. Just don't put them in something that is too dry without enough acid in it, don't mess with them during the winter, and if you get "the wilt" move them away from your other azaleas and pour out some beer for your soon to be dead homie!

 

[Eric Group]

Sooner the better for Azalea then in your area, you will be chopping them down to 3 inches or so and removing most of the root mass. What applies there is the trunk base and health of the plant. Sooner would be better because the plant needs to be established BEFORE winter no matter where you live to increase its chance of doing well in the spring. I would strongly recommend in your case NOT to drop them into full sun. Azalea like damp NOT wet rich organic which will need to drain freely. Going into summer provide the soil and dampness and at best filtered sun for the best chance of success

Grimmy

As usual, Grimmy is exactly on point! Less sun for Azaleas. Some can tolerate more sun than others, but they all do fine in the shade. More sun may lead to more blooms, but it also makes the blooms fade faster, and they will get too dry real fast, especially while in flower!

 

[JoeR]

I think Kanuma is the "golden ticket" when talking about Japanese soil ingredients for Azaleas, but I use a regular bonsai mix (Akadama, pumice, lava) with a little extra Akadama (John, weren't you telling me about a study pertaining to the acidity of Akadama vs Kanuma?), with some peat added (pretty acidic stuff, retains moisture well, both of which Azaleas like!).

Just what I do. Ask 50 people, get 50 answers. I had some bad luck with azaleas about 2 years ago and really changed the way I protect them in the winter, what I pot them in... And haven't had anything but really healthy trees since!

Azaleas especially seem to like a lot of water and acidic, organic soil just fine! So, even a regular potting mix should be fine for most of them until you a re ready to go in a Bonsai pot. They are GOING TO create a fine mat of roots almost irregardless of what they are potted in, so I wouldn't stress about specific materials too much. Just don't put them in something that is too dry without enough acid in it, don't mess with them during the winter, and if you get "the wilt" move them away from your other azaleas and pour out some beer for your soon to be dead homie!

Well you know me, I'm cheap and can't buy them fancy' Japanese ingredients.

I think I may do one with my normal mix, with extra pine bark fines and moss like you said. Something like 10% moss, 30% bark fines, 30% pumice and 30% lava. And another with 50/50 perlite/pine bark. See how that goes. My only fear with so much organic is fertilizer burning my ttrees. It says to feed every 7-14 days but I feed every 7 at 2-3 times the strength reccomended.

 

[Eric Group]

Well you know me, I'm cheap and can't buy them fancy' Japanese ingredients.

I think I may do one with my normal mix, with extra pine bark fines and moss like you said. Something like 10% moss, 30% bark fines, 30% pumice and 30% lava. And another with 50/50 perlite/pine bark. See how that goes. My only fear with so much organic is fertilizer burning my ttrees. It says to feed every 7-14 days but I feed every 7 at 2-3 times the strength reccomended.

Then cut back a little buddy... Those kinds of concentrations of chemical ferts should only be used when you are applying to really fast draining inorganic mixes that do not retain a lot of the chemicals/ salts. Otherwise you will eventually probably burn your trees.... Get some organics and slow release pellets and cut back on the harsh chemical mixes.

 

[GrimLore]

Well you know me, I'm cheap and can't buy them fancy' Japanese ingredients.

I think I may do one with my normal mix, with extra pine bark fines and moss like you said. Something like 10% moss, 30% bark fines, 30% pumice and 30% lava. And another with 50/50 perlite/pine bark. See how that goes. My only fear with so much organic is fertilizer burning my ttrees. It says to feed every 7-14 days but I feed every 7 at 2-3 times the strength reccomended.

If you are doing a drastic cut "I" would go very light on the coarse stuff as you will discover Azalea have a LOT of fine root and what you leave on you do not want to damage. I would suggest 1/2 inch or so of Pumice on the bottom of the pot. Wire the newly collected plant down on top of that ridged to reduce movement. Then fill in the pot with a 50/50 mix of the fines and moss. That will give you drainage and the type of soil Azalea like. At that point it should be easy to keep it damp and happy.

I never would fertilize an Azalea like a tree in a pot. They won't like it and don't really need much if any once established. A Spring normal fertilizer feeding is about it for me on those.

Grimmy

 

[barrosinc]

Free draining and some acidity... Use whatever you have. Pine bark, peat moss, sphagnum may add some acidity.
This year I am going to try 30% volcanic, 30% pumice, 30% pine, 10% peat moss.

 

[armetisius]

. . . I never would fertilize an Azalea like a tree in a pot. They won't like it and don't really need much if any once established. A Spring normal fertilizer feeding is about it for me on those.
Grimmy

Agreed:
In nature azaleas are usually [conditional statement used for the dozen smart arses that will look for the exceptions just to polish their own apples-sdgfat]
inhabitants of washed organic matter pockets on an incline--we call 'em 'hollers' down here--and it is to that end that you should take your clues on both soil and
nutrient regime. Soil in these pockets is in a state of decomposition and is a blend of all sorts of rotting organic matter. These layers can be exceptionally thick
which gives the roots open area of well drained reasonably well moistened organic 'sponge'. The roots search through and find pockets of even finer/more
decomposed material to form their mats of hair roots. These pockets become larger and more filled with roots as more of the material breaks down. Fall brings the
next layer of matter which joins in the mix adding in even another layer for its roots to take advantage of but also bringing in this years nutrients. The decomposition
of organic matter is all that azaleas need in nature as a food source once established. Hence the recommendations of heavy organic mulches when used in the
garden. Your feeding should match this same method by being extremely slow extremely weak and constant being the ideal. If you should stumble upon
a method that matches all those parameters let me know--the nursery industry has been looking for it forever. Before I get all your "miracle mix" hints; keep
'em--they ain't. Go organic sourced for the duration and gentleness [long and slow] but keep it light till you become very familiar with the dosage of what ever
product/blend you choose.

 

[armetisius]

Agreed:
In nature azaleas are usually [conditional statement used for the dozen smart arses that will look for the exceptions just to polish their own apples-sdgfat]
inhabitants of washed organic matter pockets on an incline--we call 'em 'hollers' down here--and it is to that end that you should take your clues on both soil and
nutrient regime. . . . choose.

But just so you know I am not just joking about this; this is what I have been up to this afternoon.
Bags of leaves/pine needles gathered last fall for this purpose.

But they do render down to some really nifty useful stuff that is wonderful for my little ones to get rolling in. New small shade bed in the works.

These are a blend of several different leaves and types from maple, sycamore, oaks, magnolia, pine needles, a little of it all.

Should note that I will mix this with fine pine shavings from TSC and a few other things then plant.

Finally, Grimmy this is what I was talking about. Picked a prop you could relate to.

 

[GrimLore]

But just so you know I am not just joking about this; this is what I have been up to this afternoon.
Bags of leaves/pine needles gathered last fall for this purpose.

But they do render down to some really nifty useful stuff that is wonderful for my little ones to get rolling in. New small shade bed in the works.

These are a blend of several different leaves and types from maple, sycamore, oaks, magnolia, pine needles, a little of it all.

Should note that I will mix this with fine pine shavings from TSC and a few other things then plant.

Finally, Grimmy this is what I was talking about. Picked a prop you could relate to.

WoW! Busy man with a great plan! And to get to use a new toy or two! That should yield excellent results for sure

Grimmy

 

[M. Frary]

Just don't use anything from walnut trees in your bed. It is a growth inhibitor that works like preen. Won't let anything grow through it.

 

[M. Frary]

Hey John!

 

[armetisius]

Just don't use anything from walnut trees in your bed. It is a growth inhibitor that works like preen. Won't let anything grow through it.

yeah, know that one the hard way. Planted my father some black walnut like 35-40 years ago--they died eventually--but
the area they were planted in still won't grow anything but scrubby grass and weeds. Nasty stuff that secretion from their roots.

 

[M. Frary]

It also comes from the wood and leaves.

 

[Eric Group]

yeah, know that one the hard way. Planted my father some black walnut like 35-40 years ago--they died eventually--but
the area they were planted in still won't grow anything but scrubby grass and weeds. Nasty stuff that secretion from their roots.

I believe some Oak trees do the same thing to a degree... The soil close to their roots gets really acidic or something making it hard for other things to grow there... And of course they shade everything out as well... Even grass won't generally grow as well around Oak roots. In fact, azaleas are one of the few trees that does grow ok under Oaks.

 

[armetisius]

I believe some Oak trees do the same thing to a degree... The soil close to their roots gets really acidic or something making it hard for other things to grow there... And of course they shade everything out as well... Even grass won't generally grow as well around Oak roots. In fact, azaleas are one of the few trees that does grow ok under Oaks.

Any other questions?