Delve into a newbies garden! 😎

[HorseloverFat]

Been reading up on the dos and don'ts of the twin trunk style and made a quick virt of the spiraea.

Tried to use what I read about the style in the virt where possible... Hopefully the virt is realistic.

- Trunks should move in the same direction
- Direction of the trunk and apex is the same
- Train branches as if it's a single tree as the trunks are close together
- Lowest branch should be on the smaller trunk
- Overall outline should form a triangle
- Don't cross branches over the trunks
- Branches from each tree should not be at the same level

I've cut the right trunk slightly, thinking that small left branch near the cut could be the new leader.

To add to this..

(More particularly pertaining to the “crossing branches” bit)

-Don’t get excited about “inside growth” It’s just cannon fodder.
(Just a little laugh... but seriously)

I like the design sketch you’ve presented... A nice twin-trunk can be visually stunning of the highest order.

I like your plan.

 

[Clorgan]

To add to this..

(More particularly pertaining to the “crossing branches” bit)

-Don’t get excited about “inside growth” It’s just cannon fodder.
(Just a little laugh... but seriously)

I like the design sketch you’ve presented... A nice twin-trunk can be visually stunning of the highest order.

I like your plan.

Hahaa I had to Google 'cannon fodder'

Absolutely though, great point!

Cheers for the kind words, I think it could work out nice. Unsure how long the branches take to 'mature' but looking at shohin size so it's possibly not lightyears away from resembling the design

 

[HorseloverFat]

Hahaa I had to Google 'cannon fodder'

Absolutely though, great point!

Cheers for the kind words, I think it could work out nice. Unsure how long the branches take to 'mature' but looking at shohin size so it's possibly not lightyears away from resembling the design

Agreed!

The journey will be even MORE fun!!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Nice collection @Clorgan

I really like the fuchsia, don't worry about getting the trunk diameter thick enough. Once you have a diameter over 2.5 cm, the flowers are so gorgeous that they will trump most flaws in the design. Nobody will notice flaws, they will be looking at the flowers. Similar is true of azalea, and many flowering bonsai. When in bloom, most flaws are forgiven if not ignored entirely. This makes blooming trees and shrubs easier to get to a level where people want to see them on display. Of course, bonsai is an art based requiring immense attention to detail, and one should strive for that, but in flowering bonsai there is some leeway and forgiveness that junipers and pines simply don't get.

For your spirea, twin trunk designs, typically, one trunk is dominant, one is subordinate (often referred to as mother-daughter). The subordinate trunk should be either 2/3rds the height or 1/3rd the height of the dominant trunk. Never 1/2 and usually not 3/4, as these are viewed as visually awkward. Not a "rule" per se, but it is a formula out of visual design in terms of perception.

A fun aside, in West Texas, that "puddingstone", would be considered "good dirt" because the soils of West Texas are often caliche, which has more in common with concrete than it does with friable soil. If you were to plant landscape shrubs or an orchard in west Texas, the holes are dug with sticks of dynamite, as shovels are useless. I was visiting "hill country" a couple years ago, and that's when I learned about caliche. pronounced "Cay-Lee-Chay" Just a fun fact for you. There are parts of the USA, where planting a tree in the ground is "forever", because digging up a tree, once it roots into the caliche, is near impossible, all sizing up of pre-bonsai is done in nursery pots. (West Texas is about the size of the UK in hectares).

The trident has some nice potential.

The Styrax, that trunk with the knobs, or stubbs of older branches, that is the "oldest" looking part of your tree. I would be reluctant to take off much of those knobs. Just let them be for a while. As the other trunk increases in diameter, it will balance out the look. Wait a while before you "fix" that problem area, as it does signal the age of the tree. Once the main trunk begins showing old looking, mature bark then you can reduce that area. For now leave it, as it is the only area you have mature bark.

 

[Clorgan]

Nice collection @Clorgan

I really like the fuchsia, don't worry about getting the trunk diameter thick enough. Once you have a diameter over 2.5 cm, the flowers are so gorgeous that they will trump most flaws in the design. Nobody will notice flaws, they will be looking at the flowers. Similar is true of azalea, and many flowering bonsai. When in bloom, most flaws are forgiven if not ignored entirely. This makes blooming trees and shrubs easier to get to a level where people want to see them on display. Of course, bonsai is an art based requiring immense attention to detail, and one should strive for that, but in flowering bonsai there is some leeway and forgiveness that junipers and pines simply don't get.

For your spirea, twin trunk designs, typically, one trunk is dominant, one is subordinate (often referred to as mother-daughter). The subordinate trunk should be either 2/3rds the height or 1/3rd the height of the dominant trunk. Never 1/2 and usually not 3/4, as these are viewed as visually awkward. Not a "rule" per se, but it is a formula out of visual design in terms of perception.

A fun aside, in West Texas, that "puddingstone", would be considered "good dirt" because the soils of West Texas are often caliche, which has more in common with concrete than it does with friable soil. If you were to plant landscape shrubs or an orchard in west Texas, the holes are dug with sticks of dynamite, as shovels are useless. I was visiting "hill country" a couple years ago, and that's when I learned about caliche. pronounced "Cay-Lee-Chay" Just a fun fact for you. There are parts of the USA, where planting a tree in the ground is "forever", because digging up a tree, once it roots into the caliche, is near impossible, all sizing up of pre-bonsai is done in nursery pots. (West Texas is about the size of the UK in hectares).

The trident has some nice potential.

The Styrax, that trunk with the knobs, or stubbs of older branches, that is the "oldest" looking part of your tree. I would be reluctant to take off much of those knobs. Just let them be for a while. As the other trunk increases in diameter, it will balance out the look. Wait a while before you "fix" that problem area, as it does signal the age of the tree. Once the main trunk begins showing old looking, mature bark then you can reduce that area. For now leave it, as it is the only area you have mature bark.

Thanks so much for the kind words and the great info (as always) Leo! Interesting info on the puddingstone too - learn something new every day!

Yes I've seen some lovely examples of Fuchsia, now that you mention it most that I've seen I don't think did have very thick trunks! I've got two of them in pots and one in the ground so hopefully I'll have something I can work with at some point. I'm absolutely loving the flowers on them (as are the bees).

I did worry about the twin Spiraea trunks...I'd hoped there might be a way to try to amend this? I have no idea if that's possible, I'm guessing likely not! I agree that I probably should have chopped lower too. Great things to be aware of...would you scrap the twin trunk design? I was going to leave it now until next year so I've got a while to think on it.

I really like the Trident - think it's a good starting piece. Definitely needs some girth but I like the movement and taper. Will probably either put it in the ground next spring or a nursery pot. I'm thinking a large pot would be better - our soil appears to be quite clay-based which I've seen makes pulling them up tricky. Although I've seen Tridents can deal with big root reduction so I'm not sure?

About the Styrax...as much as I agree with @sorce and that it looks very unbalanced, I do agree with you that it'd be a shame to get rid of what is the most developed part of the tree. So I did hold off on altering it at all. Like you say, hopefully they will become more in proportion.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Spirea - I like the twin trunk design. No need to "scrap it". You already chose one to be "dominant" or taller, and one to be "subordinate", or shorter. By allowing the taller trunk, to get just a bit taller, and by keeping the shorter trunk just a bit shorter, you will be real close to the 2/3 ratio. You can actually hold a tape measure to your tree, and check your progress toward the 2/3 ratio, at the same time avoiding the 3/4 and 1/2 ratios. Your drawing is pretty close to correct already. Its just tweaking a detail.

 

[Clorgan]

Spirea - I like the twin trunk design. No need to "scrap it". You already chose one to be "dominant" or taller, and one to be "subordinate", or shorter. By allowing the taller trunk, to get just a bit taller, and by keeping the shorter trunk just a bit shorter, you will be real close to the 2/3 ratio. You can actually hold a tape measure to your tree, and check your progress toward the 2/3 ratio, at the same time avoiding the 3/4 and 1/2 ratios. Your drawing is pretty close to correct already. Its just tweaking a detail.

Great stuff, cheers Leo!

 

[Clorgan]

Posted this in another thread but wanted to pop it in here too for progression...

Little DIY shop bargain broom project! Hoping it will enjoy its new life outside.

Removed a few small shoots this eve, but I've had beer so I thought best to not do much

Tomorrow will be spent researching the broom style - got a few great threads on here to look through. Also 17 back issues of some bonsai mags, hopefully they'll be some broom related content in some of those!

Us teachers know how to party hard in the summer holidays

 

[Clorgan]

Eyyy found one! Knew these mags would come in handy

 

[Clorgan]

Been looking through the broom thread @markyscott has done (amazing btw!), got a few questions...

1. I've only got 5 main branches, not greatly spread around the trunk. Guessing I'll need to hope for new buds emerging?

2. Is it a good idea to wire everything up now, including side branches and new leaders?

3. @sorce When you said about removing thin shoots, were you referring to side branches, like ones I've circled?

4. Is it not a good idea to leave as much foliage as possible to strengthen/thicken the branches? Or only prune the stronger branches to slow them down and leave the weaker branches?

 

[canadianlights]

Been looking through the broom thread @markyscott has done (amazing btw!), got a few questions...

1. I've only got 5 main branches, not greatly spread around the trunk. Guessing I'll need to hope for new buds emerging?

2. Is it a good idea to wire everything up now, including side branches and new leaders?

3. @sorce When you said about removing thin shoots, were you referring to side branches, like ones I've circled?

4. Is it not a good idea to leave as much foliage as possible to strengthen/thicken the branches? Or only prune the stronger branches to slow them down and leave the weaker branches?

Typically, for a broom, you want the branches going slightly up and out of the canopy, so any thin shoots that cross or conflict with each other I'd get rid of. Also, you primary want divisions of two, so any weak growth that splits into three (normally called crotch growth) you should get rid of. Chinese elm back buds a LOT when you cut them back hard, so if you want more branches at the base of the broom, then you're going to need to cut back hard in order to trigger the backbudding (but don't cut too much!).

I'd sort out the root system before wiring, even though that requires some waiting until the tree is bare! Although I can't really see the nebari, the largest offender as of now is that root that crosses the trunk. It's better to sort out and get the root system going good before you wire and work with all the branches. But that is up to you! There is nothing wrong with wiring the tree first!

Take all this advice with a grain of salt, I've just been doing a ton of research on brooms for my zelkova, and hope this was helpful. After all, I'm still a newbie too!

 

[Clorgan]

Typically, for a broom, you want the branches going slightly up and out of the canopy, so any thin shoots that cross or conflict with each other I'd get rid of. Also, you primary want divisions of two, so any weak growth that splits into three (normally called crotch growth) you should get rid of. Chinese elm back buds a LOT when you cut them back hard, so if you want more branches at the base of the broom, then you're going to need to cut back hard in order to trigger the backbudding (but don't cut too much!).

I'd sort out the root system before wiring, even though that requires some waiting until the tree is bare! Although I can't really see the nebari, the largest offender as of now is that root that crosses the trunk. It's better to sort out and get the root system going good before you wire and work with all the branches. But that is up to you! There is nothing wrong with wiring the tree first!

Take all this advice with a grain of salt, I've just been doing a ton of research on brooms for my zelkova, and hope this was helpful. After all, I'm still a newbie too!

Great info there - thanks very much! OK so I think for now it'll just be some pruning of the weak or crossing shoots, hard prune at a later date

 

[hinmo24t]

nice tree and to each their own (you have a nice garden and tree selection from what ive seen), but i dont like the idea of wiring at all. i think you can create good shapes with clip and grow (inward leafs prune etc for branch structure) or select a better tree from the beginning; and this is even before i subscribed to Nigel Saunders. he doesnt wire either. i feel like it takes a major aspect of nature and appeal away from the hobby. its not easy to explain - almost like i wouldnt even get into the hobby if it were necessary to add metal shaping-techniques to growing a cool tree.

i will say there are applications where im sure its helpful, but im weird i suppose and dont even want to open the door to wiring.

good luck!!

 

[HorseloverFat]

nice tree and to each their own (you have a nice garden and tree selection from what ive seen), but i dont like the idea of wiring at all. i think you can create good shapes with clip and grow (inward leafs prune etc for branch structure) or select a better tree from the beginning; and this is even before i subscribed to Nigel Saunders. he doesnt wire either. i feel like it takes a major aspect of nature and appeal away from the hobby. its not easy to explain - almost like i wouldnt even get into the hobby if it were necessary to add metal shaping-techniques to growing a cool tree.

i will say there are applications where im sure its helpful, but im weird i suppose and dont even want to open the door to wiring.

good luck!!

As i was reading.. i was like, “ok.. like Nigel.” (before you mentioned it)

I held similar ideas regarding wiring... but it turned out to be my own anxiety ABOUT the wiring process itself...

But this holds true for me with CERTAIN trees.... some respond really well to only “clip n gro.

I get what you’re saying though, or should I say I understand (AND respect) the feelings behind your methods.

 

[sorce]

thin shoots,

If you haven't removed anything, I think it was a piclusion. (Illusion in the picture!)

You might want to consider removing one set of branches if the way they dance around the trunk doesn't please you.

Seems one side or the other could be cut off for more of an informal alright broomish type thing.

I don't think any of these decisions need action soon, but things to ponder.

It's easy to get stuck on the "wrong" thing due to piclusions, and advice from "more advanced" people that aren't sitting with the tree.

Even if you have to ground layer a new set of radial Roots, there is great potential here.

I'm in don't wire Deciduous camp.
Clip and grow.

Sorce

 

[Clorgan]

OK so... Thanks for the comments everyone - interesting to get different perspectives!

So I decided to do some pruning AND wire (GASPS!) for a few reasons...

- Rightly or wrongly I wanted rid of all the small branches that I don't think were benefiting the tree

- As the main branches are still pretty flexible, I wanted to try to move them into more desirable places

Still doing a lot of research into wiring vs clip and grow... It may be that after this initial wiring I don't continue to do it, not sure yet!

Bear in mind I'm not finished yet... Used 1mm wire, might not be thick enough for the slightly larger trunks. Haven't moved the branches much yet. The one in the middle seems to be the problem one, but I'm kind of reluctant to remove it as that won't leave many left

(sorry about the rushed photos - there's a lot of angry looking wasps loitering!)

 

[canadianlights]

Looks good! Not sure about that middle branch, perhaps move it so it is leaning towards the left side and a bit more verticle, rather than the right side (directions in reference to the first picture).

However, one of the branches you wired seems to be curving back into the centre. I circled it in the picture I attached. I think that you should probably cut this branch back so it is not too long (but still fits the silhouette), and move it so it fits the broom better (moving outwards and slightly upwards).

 

[Clorgan]

Looks good! Not sure about that middle branch, perhaps move it so it is leaning towards the left side and a bit more verticle, rather than the right side (directions in reference to the first picture).

However, one of the branches you wired seems to be curving back into the centre. I circled it in the picture I attached. I think that you should probably cut this branch back so it is not too long (but still fits the silhouette), and move it so it fits the broom better (moving outwards and slightly upwards).

Yes I did that with the middle branch after the post, looks somewhat better now!

Great shout with the curving branch, will have a look at that in a bit and post an update

Thanks for the info!

 

[Clorgan]

Shorted the curved branch, think it looks a lot better now! Cheers @canadianlights

Still needs a few tweaks

 

[canadianlights]

Shorted the curved branch, think it looks a lot better now! Cheers @canadianlights

Still needs a few tweaks

Looks great, it has the bones to be a great tree in the future. Good luck!