Dan Robinson's Repotting Schedule

[Walter Pall]

For those using this technique: how often do you encounter roots girdling the trunk? Is there a technique to avoid girdling, such as an elevated planting depth?

I guess I’m more curious about the process/procedure than the popularity of the practice. Does Dan’s book discuss technique?

Never on old collected conifers and also never on old collected broadleaved trees.

 

[rockm]

I don't know what the "H***" you guys are using for "soil', but neither mine nor Dan's ever "clog" ........ maybe ... perhaps, I wonder, ... if "clogging" is uniquely endemic to the east coast or something ..... perhaps out here we're simply blessed somehow by being able to just let our trees grow and find their way - which they seem to do quite well.

Anyway, the thread seems to bore me, so I'll sign off.

At least we seem to be actually USING soil ;-) which isn't the case with a tree that hasn't been repotted in 15 years. There is no soil, or very little, in such a container.

Anyway, I use soil that promotes roots. Deciduous trees root very quickly and extensively in it. I have elms, oaks, bald cypress, maple, azalea, boxwood, hornbeam, etc. All of those require regular repotting. Some, like my Japanese maples require it almost every other year, as they quickly push dense root mats throughout the container. Water won't penetrate it, which is a big issue.

I have younger trees and very old ones. All get repotted at some point for a variety of reasons.

For instance, a pot packed with roots is more vulnerable to winter kill here, as more roots mean more exposure to cold. Soil provides some insulation in such conditions. I've had trees that needed repotting have trunk dieback in winter as a result.

As for letting trees 'find their way," ever let an Satsuki azalea go for a decade without a repot? Probably not because it's probably dead...Just sayin that not repotting your trees may satisfy some personal "let it go it's own way" thing, but the fact you have taken ownership of the tree shows that you are definitely NOT letting it "do it's thing." If you really wanted it to do that, it would have remained on the mountain it was collected on...

This is kind of sharp criticism, but apparently you guys have some kind of superiority complex about people cutting roots as part of their bonsai practices, which is kind of--well--weird...

 

[BunjaeKorea]

At least we seem to be actually USING soil ;-) which isn't the case with a tree that hasn't been repotted in 15 years. There is no soil, or very little, in such a container.

Anyway, I use soil that promotes roots. Deciduous trees root very quickly and extensively in it. I have elms, oaks, bald cypress, maple, azalea, boxwood, hornbeam, etc. All of those require regular repotting. Some, like my Japanese maples require it almost every other year, as they quickly push dense root mats throughout the container. Water won't penetrate it, which is a big issue.

I have younger trees and very old ones. All get repotted at some point for a variety of reasons.

For instance, a pot packed with roots is more vulnerable to winter kill here, as more roots mean more exposure to cold. Soil provides some insulation in such conditions. I've had trees that needed repotting have trunk dieback in winter as a result.

As for letting trees 'find their way," ever let an Satsuki azalea go for a decade without a repot? Probably not because it's probably dead...Just sayin that not repotting your trees may satisfy some personal "let it go it's own way" thing, but the fact you have taken ownership of the tree shows that you are definitely NOT letting it "do it's thing." If you really wanted it to do that, it would have remained on the mountain it was collected on...

This is kind of sharp criticism, but apparently you guys have some kind of superiority complex about people cutting roots as part of their bonsai practices, which is kind of--well--weird...

Calm down mate. It depends on the species and the size of the tree. It also depends on geographical location.

We repot satsuki every year (max 3 for very big trees). Shohin size every year.
Soil also makes a huge difference, organics will clog much faster ...so if you are using anything organic I would be inclined to agree.

Here we use totally inorganic as is traditional so it takes much longer to clog but some broadleaf trees don't like it (like azaleas). I think making a hard and fast rule either way is a bit short sighted.

Talking about large trees which have a 'permanent ' design.....obviously no bonsai is anything like that but you get what I mean.

It also depends on the tree. I have a redpine that gets repotted every year because the thing is slightly mental and destroys soil within a year.

I think it comes down to:
Am I repotting for the sake of repotting or for the sake of the tree? If it's the latter I belive that it is sometimes better to wait. Some of the times given here seem excessive though...just to be honest.

 

[grouper52]

For those using this technique: how often do you encounter roots girdling the trunk? Is there a technique to avoid girdling, such as an elevated planting depth?

I guess I’m more curious about the process/procedure than the popularity of the practice. Does Dan’s book discuss technique?

Hi. No the book doesn't focus much on techniques, and it's not really a technique for Dan, it's just the way he plants them and leaves them alone. Over the years, the root mass pushes the tree up in the pot, sort of "self-elevating" the planting depth over time. Hope that helps.

 

[rockm]

Calm down mate. It depends on the species and the size of the tree. It also depends on geographical location.

We repot satsuki every year (max 3 for very big trees). Shohin size every year.
Soil also makes a huge difference, organics will clog much faster ...so if you are using anything organic I would be inclined to agree.

Here we use totally inorganic as is traditional so it takes much longer to clog but some broadleaf trees don't like it (like azaleas). I think making a hard and fast rule either way is a bit short sighted.

Talking about large trees which have a 'permanent ' design.....obviously no bonsai is anything like that but you get what I mean.

It also depends on the tree. I have a redpine that gets repotted every year because the thing is slightly mental and destroys soil within a year.

I think it comes down to:
Am I repotting for the sake of repotting or for the sake of the tree? If it's the latter I belive that it is sometimes better to wait. Some of the times given here seem excessive though...just to be honest.

I'm not upset, just trying to get some clarity on this stuff.

Dan Robinson has long been a contrarian in bonsai circles. He loves to tweak "traditional" bonsai practitioners' noses. He was the first to horrify traditional U.S. and Japanese bonsaiists back in the late 70's and early 80's using a chain saw to "design" a piece of collected stock. First time he did it, people were speechless, however, the practice of designing larger stock on a large scale caught on. He's been laughing ever since and who can blame him. A little revolution never hurts.

The nuances involved with repotting are not well understood by everyone here, however. Some will undoubtedly take away that not repotting a tree is simply letting nature take its course and a viable way of managing bonsai. It simply isn't for the vast majority of people in the U.S. Neglect (and that is what it is even if it is harmless neglect practiced by an extremely knowledgeable bonsai practioner) is not a great thing to do to your trees.

FWIW, by all means don't repot for the sake of repotting, but also don't not repot, for the sake of not repotting...

 

[Iowa newbie]

In Nebraska, you are not really that far from Larry Jackle, in Colorado! Contact him, tell him I referred you to him, and see if you can go collecting with him in the Rockies sometime, as Dan and I have. He's a great man, full of bonsai wisdom, and collecting with him will be a great experience, and add real quality to you collection!

Im in Iowa and I'd seriously consider driving out to CO to collect with Larry, that sounds like an incredible experience.

 

[grouper52]

I'm not upset, just trying to get some clarity on this stuff.

Dan Robinson has long been a contrarian in bonsai circles. He loves to tweak "traditional" bonsai practitioners' noses. He was the first to horrify traditional U.S. and Japanese bonsaiists back in the late 70's and early 80's using a chain saw to "design" a piece of collected stock. First time he did it, people were speechless, however, the practice of designing larger stock on a large scale caught on. He's been laughing ever since and who can blame him. A little revolution never hurts.

The nuances involved with repotting are not well understood by everyone here, however. Some will undoubtedly take away that not repotting a tree is simply letting nature take its course and a viable way of managing bonsai. It simply isn't for the vast majority of people in the U.S. Neglect (and that is what it is even if it is harmless neglect practiced by an extremely knowledgeable bonsai practioner) is not a great thing to do to your trees.

FWIW, by all means don't repot for the sake of repotting, but also don't not repot, for the sake of not repotting...

Basically ... yawn ... I think we've flogged this topic long enough, don't you? With respect and best wishes, enjoy your trees! Will.

 

[grouper52]

Mike Frary! How dare you "Like" one of my posts here when we have officially "fallen out" as friends - after you told me to buck up and get my act back together, and I replied suggesting you "F-off" for such unsupportive advice .....LOL!!! and all that!

Thanks for the recent "Like", and let's forget all that drama between us earlier ... How you been?? I hope you're well! Thanks for bridging the distance with your "Like"!

Any albums featuring your trees, so I can get caught up!

 

[grouper52]

I don’t want to speak too broadly about his techniques but I spent the day at Elandan Gardens last month with Dan and two long time friends of his. One being @grouper52.
Most of his trees are Yamadori some collected more then 50 years ago still going strong.
He doesn’t fertilize or do any pest treatment either for the most part. There may be exceptions but these are questions I asked while there.
Definitely saw some trees that had not been repotted in 20+ years. They just grow roots and push the tree up in the pot.
Honestly, his trees look good and healthy. His exhibition at the PNB has some truly amazing trees as well.
Could be mind over matter. Just Jedi style force shit.
Sorry pic isn’t good so don’t judge the foliage color. I don’t remember exactly the variety of juniper this is either.
View attachment 261312

That's a Rocky Mountain Juniper, collected from a hillside in Drummond, Montana in 1989. I've been to that "hillside"/cliff! with Dan, a great site. Dan went up on the "hill" on a quick reconnoiter, with only a crowbar and pruners, and sacrificed his shirt to tie up the roots after extraction! It was growing in crumbling Basalt, and came out bare-rooted, but survived the transplant. It's date of origin (roughly dated with electron microscopy of the growth rings in the oldest areas) being 1250 AD. It's a favorite at the Gardens, with the dead-wood roots and the rest of the dead wood juxtaposed with the still-living growth, in a fantastic pot by Charles Gluskoter.

 

[grouper52]

BTW,

 

[BunjaeKorea]

I'm not upset, just trying to get some clarity on this stuff.

Dan Robinson has long been a contrarian in bonsai circles. He loves to tweak "traditional" bonsai practitioners' noses. He was the first to horrify traditional U.S. and Japanese bonsaiists back in the late 70's and early 80's using a chain saw to "design" a piece of collected stock. First time he did it, people were speechless, however, the practice of designing larger stock on a large scale caught on. He's been laughing ever since and who can blame him. A little revolution never hurts.

The nuances involved with repotting are not well understood by everyone here, however. Some will undoubtedly take away that not repotting a tree is simply letting nature take its course and a viable way of managing bonsai. It simply isn't for the vast majority of people in the U.S. Neglect (and that is what it is even if it is harmless neglect practiced by an extremely knowledgeable bonsai practioner) is not a great thing to do to your trees.

FWIW, by all means don't repot for the sake of repotting, but also don't not repot, for the sake of not repotting...

Chainsaw? That's well ummm interesting.
I see what you're getting at and I think we are on the same wave length here.
We both agree do what's best for the plant. If it's not repotting because of laziness or 'let nature take it's course' or let's repot because I feel like it are all not putting the tree first.

In my experience there is a need for flexibility because not only is every location and species different but each individual tree has its own growth pattern.

 

[wireme]

BTW, View attachment 262128View attachment 262128

Hey, thanks for chiming in on the thread Will. I’ve always been interested in hearing more about Dans methods and tree care. Last time the topic came up there was a lot of he said, she said, the trees are all weak and dying basically. Mostly second hand info it seemed. Does Dan eventually cut out the tie down wires to allow the trees to rise up as roots grow?

 

[0soyoung]

Mike Frary! How dare you "Like" one of my posts here when we have officially "fallen out" as friends - after you told me to buck up and get my act back together, and I replied suggesting you "F-off" for such unsupportive advice .....LOL!!! and all that!

Thanks for the recent "Like", and let's forget all that drama between us earlier ... How you been?? I hope you're well! Thanks for bridging the distance with your "Like"!

Any albums featuring your trees, so I can get caught up!

Will,
That fucking clown is one of your best friends, I think

 

[grouper52]

Hey, thanks for chiming in on the thread Will. I’ve always been interested in hearing more about Dans methods and tree care. Last time the topic came up there was a lot of he said, she said, the trees are all weak and dying basically. Mostly second hand info it seemed. Does Dan eventually cut out the tie down wires to allow the trees to rise up as roots grow?

What are "tie-down" wires?!!? LOL!!! [Dan doesn't use them ..... ]

 

[JudyB]

Mike Frary! How dare you "Like" one of my posts here when we have officially "fallen out" as friends - after you told me to buck up and get my act back together, and I replied suggesting you "F-off" for such unsupportive advice .....LOL!!! and all that!

Thanks for the recent "Like", and let's forget all that drama between us earlier ... How you been?? I hope you're well! Thanks for bridging the distance with your "Like"!

Any albums featuring your trees, so I can get caught up!

tagging @M. Frary so he sees this post from you Will.

 

[Wilson]

I will freely admit that I am a big fan boy of Dan's. It was photos of his trees that really got me diving deep into bonsai.

 

[wireme]

What are "tie-down" wires?!!? LOL!!! [Dan doesn't use them ..... ]

I guess the bonsai police have learned that there is no point showing up at Elandan eh? He must have a no tie down permit or something. I’ve been using a nice annealed iron wire that I found, really nice and soft to work with and rusts away to nothing in about 4 years.

 

[grouper52]

I guess the bonsai police have learned that there is no point showing up at Elandan eh? He must have a no tie down permit or something. I’ve been using a nice annealed iron wire that I found, really nice and soft to work with and rusts away to nothing in about 4 years.

Actually your post brought up a memory, and I stand corrected: Yes, I did once see him use two iron wires on a particularly difficult tree/pot match-up ... ran them up through the drainage holes and anchored it below the holes by wrapping it around a nail as I recall ... said it's color as it rusted over time would blend in better with the tree's bark than would the usual wire . . . .

 

[M. Frary]

Mike Frary! How dare you "Like" one of my posts here when we have officially "fallen out" as friends - after you told me to buck up and get my act back together, and I replied suggesting you "F-off" for such unsupportive advice .....LOL!!! and all that!

Thanks for the recent "Like", and let's forget all that drama between us earlier ... How you been?? I hope you're well! Thanks for bridging the distance with your "Like"!

Any albums featuring your trees, so I can get caught up!

I dare.
Because no matter how you felt about me I never thought you hated me.
Just gave you space to do your thing and here we are.
As far as I'm concerned there's nothing to forget nor forgive..
I'll always think of you as a friend.
I'm fine.
I dont know how to form an album but I'll give it a try.
My collection is a fluid thing.
Trees come,trees go.

 

[M. Frary]

That fucking clown

It's been a couple years.
I believe the clown will be around this Halloween.
My daughters don't like it at all.
They call it The Clown.
Not me dressed up as one.
Like it's a separate entity.
It's awesome.