Dan Robinson's Repotting Schedule

[grouper52]

ah, sorry for the confusion! Im not Frank, but it is his image set he publicly posted elsewhere few years back. I do go up to Dan's garden a couple times a year and I recently spoke with him and Frank just last month about an old boxwood of mine. Ill try to say hi next time im up there if youre about. Did you write the Gnarly Branches book? Do you know how much of the boggy field soil Dan keeps when going from collection to pot? I figured a lot of that was retained to sustain the root systems without repotting so often but could be mistaken

Yes, exactly so: Dan tries to mess with the root systems as little as possible, both when collecting, and once they're established in a pot or on a rock. And yes, I wrote, photographed (the bulk) and published the book. Took three years of my life, and nothing I have done before or since has at all matched my pride in having done that. The inspiration came out of the blue, and I had never done anything like that before, and it just flowed from me. It was a great honor to have done so for such a great artist, and such a great man and friend.

 

[grouper52]

I had heard from a pretty reliable source, that Dan had lost a significant part of the collection in the last 15 years. I have no idea to what but maybe a reliable source cold confirm that. In fact I think I heard that many of the trees in Grouper's book no longer exist.

Actually, almost all of them are still alive and well!

 

[grouper52]

Just a further follow-up today: I was at Elandan Gardens, and so was Dan and Frank Height, and we got to talking about this thread and its content. I actually took a copy of the book - not that I really needed it - and walked the gardens, looking to see if any of the 50 Gallery trees or even any of the other ones pictured elsewhere in the book were no longer present, and indeed, there were two that were not! I asked Dan about their fate: Yes, one had died, the other was at his home on Pather Lake now, alive and well. 'nuff said ....

As Gene Hackman famously said in the 1992 movie "Unforgiven", when someone walked into the town where he was sheriff, and told him he had heard that he was dead: "Hell I even thought I was dead, till I found out that It was just that I was in Nebraska."

 

[mrcasey]

Thanks so much for the update and contribution, Grouper52. I find all of this very interesting...

 

[BunjaeKorea]

We generally repot pines every 8 to 10 years for established and mature trees depending on the pot and the breakdown of the soil. Mostly we repot because the soil becomes too acidic for their symbiots.

Larger broadleaves 3 to 5 years.

You guys in the west sure are bored because you repot your trees way too often. Are you repotting for the sake of the tree or repotting for the sake of repotting......that's the question.

 

[Potawatomi13]

You guys in the west sure are bored because you repot your trees way too often. Are you repotting for the sake of the tree or repotting for the sake of repotting......that's the question.

WAY too much time on their hands. Not for the trees.

 

[SuperMarioZZZ]

@Walter Pall What’s your opinion on this?

 

[Walter Pall]

@Walter Pall What’s your opinion on this?

I try to only repot whan i really have to. And I only cut roots whwn i really have to. This is by far not as often as most bonsaiists think. There is some common understanding that you do trees something good if you repot them and you strengthen them if you cut roots. This is crazy! Exactly the opposite is true.

Colected old conifers often can nd should stay without repotting for 20 or more years without problems.

 

[BobbyLane]

i believe this hawthorn on Harry harrington's blog hasnt been repotted since 2007, says so in the link.....

Hawthorn 'Informal Broom' Bonsai Progression Series

Large Website located in the UK, Bonsai4me offers Bonsai Art, Species guides for Bonsai trees, Bonsai galleries and Bonsai Techniques.

bonsai4me.com

the linden on Walter's blog wasnt repotted in 15 years. so pretty common amongst bonsai pro's to go long periods between repotting

Linden #1 repotted finally

This linden had not been repotted since more than 15 years. While some will think that this is reckless, it is not uncommon with professio...

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

 

[BunjaeKorea]

I try to only repot whan i really have to. And I only cut roots whwn i really have to. This is by far not as often as most bonsaiists think. There is some common understanding that you do trees something good if you repot them and you strengthen them if you cut roots. This is crazy! Exactly the opposite is true.

Colected old conifers often can nd should stay without repotting for 20 or more years without problems.

I don't actually get where the regular repot idea comes from.
It really only applies to shohin because of the pot size.
The whole repotting process in itself is unnatural for the tree and it needs to resettle in the pot.

 

[rockm]

The biggest issue that seems to be getting lost here is that Dan Robinson is working with old and extremely old western conifers. If you're thinking this "no repotting" thing works with developing trees or with deciduous trees (including old collected ones) you're fooling yourself. Conifers are not deciduous trees, obviously. I have seen deciduous trees choke themselves with roots, blocking drainage and rotting.

I also know that experienced folks here in the east, working with deciduous species, from bald cypress, to hackberry to elm, etc. have tried to go this route. The result is sluggish or dead trees. I had friends that have an old collected bald cypress they let go for 15 years with no repotting. The tree grew, but very very slowly. It also pushed itself up as roots below added up. They pulled it out of the pot when they decided that root pruning was a better thing to do. The roots that had developed were a horsecollar circle with roots as thick as an arm. Repotting required sawing through all of those, which removed all of the tree's feeder roots.

Luckily, since it was a BC, it bounced back and grew like mad in the freed up soil. They now repot it every seven years or so.

I repot my old live oak when drainage on the soil surface visibly slows. That takes about six years or so. The tree always grows better when its roots aren't compacted...There is a visible pick up in foliage density and quality immediately after repotting.

 

[rockm]

I don't actually get where the regular repot idea comes from.
It really only applies to shohin because of the pot size.
The whole repotting process in itself is unnatural for the tree and it needs to resettle in the pot.

I guess I'd ask--what's the difference between being root bound in a 12" pot, vs root bound in a 4" pot? Result is the same, choked drainage and rotting roots...Also, repotting is hardly the only thing that is unnatural with bonsai. Being in a container with very little room and soil to grow in and having top growth repeatedly pruned are all extremely unnatural. If you say that these conditions exist in nature, sure, but they are hardly optimal for the tree.

 

[grouper52]

The biggest issue that seems to be getting lost here is that Dan Robinson is working with old and extremely old western conifers.

LOL, well yes he IS working with many of those, but he's working with at least an equal number of trees that either started off as seeds or seedlings - conifers and deciduous - that he either grew in the ground at his home over a few decades to create a decent-sized trunk, or that he collected as landscape trees he'd clear out on a job (his main income has always been landscaping) that were mostly deciduous and often just a few decades old. And his thoughts about re-potting apply as equally to these as to his old collected conifers.

And to reinforce what Walter Pall said above, I've never seen Dan root-prune a single tree, ever. and he finds the idea abhorrent.

 

[rockm]

LOL, well yes he IS working with many of those, but he's working with at least an equal number of trees that either started off as seeds or seedlings - conifers and deciduous - that he either grew in the ground at his home over a few decades to create a decent-sized trunk, or that he collected as landscape trees he'd clear out on a job (his main income has always been landscaping) that were mostly deciduous and often just a few decades old. And his thoughts about re-potting apply as equally to these as to his old collected conifers.

And to reinforce what Walter Pall said above, I've never seen Dan root-prune a single tree, ever. and he finds the idea abhorrent.

Laugh all you want ;-) What you've described here IS NOT "only in a pot, never root pruned" Ground growing seedlings is not a pot, neither are mature landscape trees collected and pruned to fit in a pot.

And FWIW, this is not a great thing to do here in the east. You're asking for trouble, or crippling yourself in developing a tree, if you do.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

I guess I'd ask--what's the difference between being root bound in a 12" pot, vs root bound in a 4" pot? Result is the same, choked drainage and rotting roots...Also, repotting is hardly the only thing that is unnatural with bonsai. Being in a container with very little room and soil to grow in and having top growth repeatedly pruned are all extremely unnatural. If you say that these conditions exist in nature, sure, but they are hardly optimal for the tree.

Your ri

I guess I'd ask--what's the difference between being root bound in a 12" pot, vs root bound in a 4" pot? Result is the same, choked drainage and rotting roots...Also, repotting is hardly the only thing that is unnatural with bonsai. Being in a container with very little room and soil to grow in and having top growth repeatedly pruned are all extremely unnatural. If you say that these conditions exist in nature, sure, but they are hardly optimal for the tree.

You are right of course. The whole process is unnatural yes. However I was more alluding to established trees. I see 'some' people repot trees that should be staying in their pots way too often.
Both clog but there is a great different in speed of clogging.
This also depends on species. In my experience this mostly applies to conifers. Like I said in the post mature broadleaf trees get repotted 3 to 4 years and thats also because their soil clogs faster and gets acidic way faster than conifers

 

[grouper52]

I don't know what the "H***" you guys are using for "soil', but neither mine nor Dan's ever "clog" ........ maybe ... perhaps, I wonder, ... if "clogging" is uniquely endemic to the east coast or something ..... perhaps out here we're simply blessed somehow by being able to just let our trees grow and find their way - which they seem to do quite well.

Anyway, the thread seems to bore me, so I'll sign off.

 

[Jorow99]

Yes, exactly so: Dan tries to mess with the root systems as little as possible, both when collecting, and once they're established in a pot or on a rock. And yes, I wrote, photographed (the bulk) and published the book. Took three years of my life, and nothing I have done before or since has at all matched my pride in having done that. The inspiration came out of the blue, and I had never done anything like that before, and it just flowed from me. It was a great honor to have done so for such a great artist, and such a great man and friend.

Such a good book, my favorite bonsai book for sure. Thank you.

 

[grouper52]

Such a good book, my favorite bonsai book for sure. Thank you.

You are very, very welcome! Thank you for your kind words!

 

[grouper52]

In Nebraska, you are not really that far from Larry Jackle, in Colorado! Contact him, tell him I referred you to him, and see if you can go collecting with him in the Rockies sometime, as Dan and I have. He's a great man, full of bonsai wisdom, and collecting with him will be a great experience, and add real quality to you collection!

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

For those using this technique: how often do you encounter roots girdling the trunk? Is there a technique to avoid girdling, such as an elevated planting depth?

I guess I’m more curious about the process/procedure than the popularity of the practice. Does Dan’s book discuss technique?