Conflicting info on repotting juniper?

[BrightsideB]

Takes me back to something Ryan neil said: How do you get good at bonsai? "you get good at bonsai by killing bonsai" Ryan neil

What that means is, you shouldnt be afraid to work on material like this. Dare I say 'made to feel afraid'

Also its not so much that what you heard is conflicting advice. Spring isnt the only window to do tree work, its well documented now and also proven that most species have more than one window to do root work in, timings may vary from climate to climate, aftercare may or may not be needed. Most of you guys across the pond use greenhouses and garages. 'Mulching' seems a popular one now. But those are things you can experiment with for yourself. Its ok to try things, its ok to make mistakes and with material like this any mistakes made arent costly. You could just as easily kill this tree in spring by chopping off too much root. How much root is a safe amount to remove in any window? You learn these things not by what people tell you but by doing it for yourself, you gradually learn whats a safe amount by continuing to do the work and not by being afraid. Eventually you make your own rules.
So what if you repot now and the tree doesnt recover for whatever reason? Well, at least you took the first step in practicing root work, maybe the next time you'll try leaving a bit more root, or trying root work at a different time, or not teasing out as much, etc etc. Its the experiences that you learn greatly from, not from folk putting the fear of god into you

I took baby steps in the beginning and for years had nothing. It’s my fault but once I started to feel more comfortable from all my experience I have started going all in with a different attitude. If you take baby steps when unnecessary we are setting ourselves back from the fun and joy which is creating bonsai. Also the experience.

 

[Dav4]

Advising a newb to wait for better timing to repot isn't "pussy footing" imo... it's just better advice... maybe? Yeah, you can get away with poor technique and poor timing with young vigorous material and juniper are uber tough for sure. I'll even go as far as saying that this tree will likely sail through this repot as long as the root work isn't too aggressive and subsequent winter protection is appropriate for the climate and degree of work. Still, having a few successful experiences under your belt is better imo then killing a tree simply because you're impatient and I think it's only a valuable experience losing a tree doing off season work if you've already mastered repotting junipers at the more appropriate times, be that spring or mid summer. I've always been an advocate of spring repots... mainly because it's worked for me pretty much since I started repotting, and my skills/experience have allowed for increased aggressiveness in root removal/manipulation and success pushing the timing. I chuckle when I read about the one insult per season rule, mainly because it's not something I think about when working my trees... ever.... but that comes from lots and lots of experience and success aggressively doing root and canopy work together. Anyway, that's how I see it... good luck with the tree.

 

[BobbyLane]

Its not being impatient though is it. The fact is, there is more than one repotting window. Not just spring. Its that simple really.

 

[Dav4]

Its not being impatient though is it. The fact is, there is more than one repotting window. Not just spring. Its that simple really.

Perhaps... I know about summer repots but I can't speak from experience repotting trees in October in N. TX. I have no idea what kind of winter they can expect and I have no idea what winter protection the OP can provide, so I try to give "best practice" advice when I can't answer those questions. Perhaps, all those concerns us spring repot advocates have had over out of season rootwork will eventually be shown to be overblown, and I'd absolutely welcome that.

 

[Pigskin Pete]

I really appreciate the conversation yall are having. I went ahead and went for it. I have a tendency to get attached to these few trees I have - but I need more and I need practice. Let's see what kind of learning shall be done.

 

[Pigskin Pete]

I really appreciate the conversation yall are having. I went ahead and went for it. I have a tendency to get attached to these few trees I have - but I need more and I need practice. Let's see what kind of learning shall be done.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Never mind...I see you chose to repot.

My take...people repot far to frequently. We could learn from Walter Pall on how he allows several years to pass between repots.

I hope...ones learn...horticulture skills is honing and attempting success. Not flip a coin.

 

[snowman04]

I find this conversation really beneficial for a noobie like me. In the past, I have always plowed ahead in learning different skills so I can be proficient quickly. This however is something I have chosen now in my later years and do want to develop the correct skills and master the craft (this is where your advice comes in). Keep up the great job all you veteran bonsai people!!! I'm getting better every day...

 

[BobbyLane]

Never mind...I see you chose to repot.

My take...people repot far to frequently. We could learn from Walter Pall on how he allows several years to pass between repots.

I hope...ones learn...horticulture skills is honing and attempting success. Not flip a coin.

People are especially enthusiastic about repotting newly acquired trees, because it's been drilled in to have perfect fibrous roots and radial nebari etc, so it's the first thing newbies want to do, get it into bonsai soil asap.
When we talk about repotting too frequently it's more in regards to established bonsai right, not so much newly purchased nursery stock which the op has.

 

[BobbyLane]

I really appreciate the conversation yall are having. I went ahead and went for it. I have a tendency to get attached to these few trees I have - but I need more and I need practice. Let's see what kind of learning shall be done.

Should it die, the most likely cause would be too much root was removed, or foliage. Nursery conifers can be finnicky about having foliage removed at the best of times. Sometimes removing too much foliage from a tree that was shaded out in the nursery can be a death sentence in itself, often the newly exposed foliage can't handle it. You'll learn little things like this by working on more n more trees.

 

[Cadillactaste]

People are especially enthusiastic about repotting newly acquired trees, because it's been drilled in to have perfect fibrous roots and radial nebari etc, so it's the first thing newbies want to do, get it into bonsai soil asap.
When we talk about repotting too frequently it's more in regards to established bonsai right, not so much newly purchased nursery stock which the op has.

Yes...established trees repotted to frequently. Thanks for clarifying.

But clearly we aren't in early fall as this one claims to have read up on...out of season repots is rushing...and sloppy.

Nothing infuriates me more. Than when one encourages poor horticulture skills/practice/procedures...poor timing because of cheap material is worth the risk.

But I will state...Walter Pall did advise me to leave a lilac in the nursery medium...and not rush a pot. that...clearly went a long way in my thought process as well.

But clearly heading into winter. Rushing a repot I clearly see no beneficial take on the reason for it. Other than thickening the trunk? A dead tree won't need a thick trunk.

 

[BobbyLane]

Yes...established trees repotted to frequently. Thanks for clarifying.

But clearly we aren't in early fall as this one claims to have read up on...out of season repots is rushing...and sloppy.

Nothing infuriates me more. Than when one encourages poor horticulture skills/practice/procedures...poor timing because of cheap material is worth the risk.

But I will state...Walter Pall did advise me to leave a lilac in the nursery medium...and not rush a pot. that...clearly went a long way in my thought process as well.

But clearly heading into winter. Rushing a repot I clearly see no beneficial take on the reason for it. Other than thickening the trunk? A dead tree won't need a thick trunk.

I've often left trees in part nursery soil after a repot, simply to power top growth and prompt faster recovery. This practice is heavily scorned upon, I wasn't aware anyone else still did this on here.

You can repot a tree simply because you want to do root work, you want to see the roots 'now' or you want to put it into a more manageable container. And we know there is more than one window to do root work so i dont see what the problem is. You buy trees to work on them not to sit around and twiddle your thumbs.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I've often left trees in part nursery soil after a repot, simply to power top growth and prompt faster recovery. This practice is heavily scorned upon, I wasn't aware anyone else still did this on here.

You can repot a tree simply because you want to do root work, you want to see the roots 'now' or you want to put it into a more manageable container. And we know there is more than one window to do root work so i dont see what the problem is. You buy trees to work on them not to sit around and twiddle your thumbs.

No he suggested I didn't touch the roots at all. Develop the top first..

Yes more ways to skin a cat. But clearly window of opportunity is a thing...as is patience. I'm also a northerner who sees a cold winter. So...I clearly see things from that perspective. Poster doesn't have location marked if not mistaken. I see...my winters...zone 4 as in timing and I clearly wouldn't do it now.

I don't understand the difference in repotting a tree that is $10 or...$500 . I'm a very literal thinker though. I see...horticultural success in timing. That...is truly important. A dead tree is good to no one.

Edit: Clearly I was tired last night. His location is stated. Then...truly I would not personally have advised. Because...I don't clearly understand what his climate allows.

 

[BobbyLane]

If you begin by killing a few trees, you will soon develop better horticultural skills to keep them alive that's a given.
I dont believe in this process of tippy toeing through and doing everything flawlessly, or ' I made this mistake so therefore you don't have to' If anything it scares people off and kills enthusiasm dead in its tracks.

 

[Cadillactaste]

If you begin by killing a few trees, you will soon develop better horticultural skills to keep them alive that's a given.
I dont believe in this process of tippy toeing through and doing everything flawlessly, or ' I made this mistake so therefore you don't have to' If anything it scares people off and kills enthusiasm dead in its tracks.

Again...two ways to skin a cat. I take failure...personal...that's me.

That said...I've done my own landscaping for years...before bonsai. So...I hold horticultural to a different level than ones beginning in bonsai I do believe. Something to chew on. For landscape...I do prefer fall planting. No heat of summer to deal with.

I truly just want everyone to succeed. I don't do failure well at all. Personally...I've lost...maybe 5 trees in ten years. And not to my ignorance. But...things out of my control. Living things...do die.

 

[snowman04]

Wanting everyone to succeed is admirable...

 

[Paradox]

If you begin by killing a few trees, you will soon develop better horticultural skills to keep them alive that's a given.
I dont believe in this process of tippy toeing through and doing everything flawlessly, or ' I made this mistake so therefore you don't have to' If anything it scares people off and kills enthusiasm dead in its tracks.

You don't need to kill trees to learn bonsai. It happens enough without purposely doing it by doing things at the wrong time.

Im sure the masters in Japan just let apprentices do whatever at any time they want and if trees die they say "oh well, they couldn't learn it unless they killed the tree"
/sarcasm

I still have the first 3 or 5 trees I ever purchased.

If what you do succeeds the first time without killing the tree, it still gives you a baseline to start and reinforcement that you did ok. It can also dispel some fear about killing trees.

Killing a tree you paid for, spent time on and enjoyed/loved is the biggest thing I have seen discourage people from continuing.

 

[CarpenterDiaz7]

This is a waiting game, and that is a nice tree. I would t stunt it now, spring is a much better time when the tree is getting ready to put out energy. Reporting in early spring in a nice pot is best.

 

[SandSquid]

What works for me (and I'm relatively new to this whole thing) is to prune and shape in fall, and repot in spring. I've only killed one juniper so far and that's because I went way too aggressive on root work because I didn't understand that you shouldn't, really, in most cases, I guess, whatever, prune/wire and perform root work at the same time. I put the tree through some significant trauma by doing it all at the same time - and a LOT of it at the same time. I had lots of other stock to work on (I bought 6 or 7 pro nana in one batch) so while I watched that particular one brown and die no matter how I tried saving it, I learned my lesson. Also, that just sort of spreads out having things to do. I take my time pruning and wiring, then a few months later I take my time repotting. The rest have done very well!

As a newbie, I went tree crazy and bought all kinds of trees and even did a little yamadori hunt which yielded three more. So, I have quite a few trees to look at, pinch-trim here and there, and just all around take care of while there's no pruning or repotting activity. I couldn't stand having just one tree. As everyone else here has alluded to (or mentioned outright), patience is a virtue in this game. And, really, being an inherently uber-impatient person, I have found that Bonsai has helped me slow down and be more willing to wait.

 

[BobbyLane]

What are the 'rules'? 'The less you touch it, the greater the chance it survives, but how do you get good at bonsai? You get good at bonsai by killing bonsai' 'This is not something I promote, im not saying everyone should go out and kill their bonsai' 'But if you're too scared to try or too scared to experiment with this kind of material' Ryan neil

I wholeheartedly agree with everything he said, this is what my whole bonsai journey has been about.

If you're too stubborn, too set in your ways or too ignorant to listen to get the full context from the time stamps ive posted, then please dont @me

Fear of failure or death will stop many from improving their trees, thus becoming better at bonsai.

'YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOURSELF THE FREEDOM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT FEELS LIKE' 'IT'S OK TO MAKE MISTAKES' -Ryan neil