Bonsai shortcuts

Sooo are you saying you are not a fan of just about every show in Japan where the trees being displayed are owned typically by a bonsai collector but were made be others? I dont personally have a problem with it unless I was the guy that put the blood, sweat, and tears into it and didn't get credit. But i suppose the money i was paid for the tree or to work on the tree was the deal. Nobody said they were going to go around promoting my skills by announcing I made their tree.

In Japan that have this worked out. The 2 biggest exhibitions are the KoKu Fu ten and the Saku Fu ten. The Koko Fu ten is for everyone. Well, not everyone. I mean they are all masterpiece trees. However, many trees are entered by collectors. The Soku Fu ten is for the workers. The person enetering the tree has to have done the work for it to be entered in the exhibition.

Rob
 
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In Japan that have this worked out. The 2 biggest exhibitions are the KoKu Fu ten and the Soku Fu ten. The Koko Fu ten is for everyone. Well, not everyone. I mean they are all masterpiece trees. However, many trees entered are by collectors. The Soku Fu ten is for the workers. The tree has to have done the work for it to be entered in the exhibition.

Rob
Where can I get one of those? :D
 
Wouldn't that be great though.. Who worked on this tree?.. The tree did all it's own work. I went out to water in the morning and saw a beautiful informal upright. It was awesome...lol;)

Rob
 
Trees are trees; there are good trees and not so good trees. If the goal of a show is to display the best bonsai in a particular region then go for it, for a show in Michigan you should not be able to bring a tree in from California or New York that is not representative of that area and does not reside in that area. However if you have a contest to find the best bonsai in the country it does not make much difference where the trees come from or whose work they are, unless they are imported for the show from some other country and will be returned when the show is over.

When one considers that usually, on a local level, a show is as much about the grower of the tree as it is about the tree itself. Trees brought in by a Check Book Artist and represented as their own creative work is what causes the controversy. There are those who say that this is stupid and self defeating, trees should be allowed despite ownership? That may be, as long as it is not your ox that is being gored, or your efforts that are being marginalized. But; if you have put forward a lot of work to develop and prep a tree and some pendejo comes in with a tree that was designed and prepped by some professional grower and takes all of the marbles it tends to make those perennial non-winners to stop trying to improve their work. In the end; bonsai has not been forwarded at all, especially when one considers that the shelf life of one of these acquired masterpieces is usually not more than two years.

OK I took your post to be two seperate paragraphs. At the top paragraph you did not talk about said show being ones own work. You just said regional show with no mention of the work. You only talked about a tree residing within the region. You said trees are trees....good or bad. On that I agree. That is why I questioned it.

Then you go on to talking about pendejo's that enter check book trees as their own. I did not reference anything from that paragraph. That one speaks for itself......

Obviously I think you can understand my confusion.

I think that if someone feels so strongly about the merits of how a tree is built and that only those built by said owner, that person should make sure they make a movement within that organization to have a special place within a club show where only those that have designed their tree and built that tree would be able to participate. Maybe become President or Vice President for a couple years and then prsent it to the club.
An award for outstanding achievement can be given on the merits of the facilitator.

On the other hand to not allow someone to show their tree just cause they bought is kind a not cool.
 
I wonder how successful car shows would be if they followed the same idea of not be able to show unless you made it yourself? Does that mean you have to be Henry Ford himself to show a car or just the guy who painted it and rebuilt his own engine. God forbid if you paid someone else to upholster it
 
I wonder how successful car shows would be if they followed the same idea of not be able to show unless you made it yourself? Does that mean you have to be Henry Ford himself to show a car or just the guy who painted it and rebuilt his own engine. God forbid if you paid someone else to upholster it

Apples and Oranges unless you happen to be some custom hot rod shop competing with other custom hot rod shops or cycles shops, with cycle shops.
 
Apples and Oranges unless you happen to be some custom hot rod shop competing with other custom hot rod shops or cycles shops, with cycle shops.

I have no idea how you come up with this rationale.

If the Four Season bonsai club has its yearly show and Kathy Shaner is in town and your club offered her 50.00 to do a demo and for some reason she did it, and then someone says hey Kathy while your here could you pick out the best bonsai?

Does Vance Wood somehow catch her on her way to the ladies room and slip her a note....

" only judge entries no. 7, 15 and 27 because these are the only three I know were created by the entrant."


We're judging trees not egos.


Somehow I feel that someone keeps getting his marbles snacthed by better trees.
 
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stooges.jpg

Sorry - this needs to be lightened up a bit :o
 
I think our biggest issue is our "coming of age" in bonsai here in America. What I mean is this: Japan has been showing bonsai for generations, so trees have a lot of history... history that tree owners and artists are proud of. There is no squabbling over who's work it is, it's work done and shared over generations. Sure there's new things happening, Kimura made huge changes. But still people care more about sharing in the history of these trees than owning all of the bragging rights. They know the great trees will all continue to change hands over years and generations.

In contrast, our bonsai history is not nearly as old. We are just getting to the point where there are great trees being passed on. People are buying these... I think because they recognize them as good or great trees and desire to play a part in the trees development/future.

The only way to claim a tree as entirely your "own work" is to grow it from seed yourself; even then... wind blowing it off the bench, disease, bugs or your kids basketball may have played a part in it's development. Personally, I have my own trees from seeds, from collecting, from growers and even from nurseries selling "finished" trees. I'm proud to own these trees an I'm more than glad to tell people where they came from. If I buy a nice tree from Telperion and develop the ramification to enter it in to a show I'll be proud to tell you the stock came from Telperion. If I buy a tree from Randy Knight I'll proudly tell you it was collected by Randy Knight. If I buy a styled tree from Ryan Neil I'll proudly tell you it was designed by Ryan Neil. I'm not going to hide it at home because I didn't do it all. I hope that one day some of you will enter masterpiece trees in a show and be proud that is was collected by Dan W in Wyoming. The professionals are working to earn our business and there is no better advertisement than their work displayed at a show. I really don't think there are too many folks out there who would blatantly lie about doing all the work themselves. So please enjoy your trees and don't get too caught up in your ego to fully appreciate a tree. This is not an art form like painting. It's never finished. So we will never get exclusive bragging rights unless it grows... and dies in our hands; I personally would not brag about this though...

It really is about the trees, and us getting to play a part in them. They will outlive us if treated properly. Many collected trees are already generations older than the oldest members here. :)
 
The Soku Fu ten is for the workers. The person enetering the tree has to have done the work for it to be entered in the exhibition.

Rob

Rob, some more perspective on this: From what I've read on the Sokufu, this is true, but these are often very established, even masterpiece, trees that are selected by apprentices who wire them out, polish the pot, add moss and set up the display. It seems that this is an opportunity for the next generations of professionals to gain recognition so that clients will bring trees to them in the future...

It is for the workers, but the type of "work" is vastly different from this comparison of home grown trees to "Checkbook Artist" trees that are being discussed at the moment. - Are there small club shows in Japan like we have here? It seems to me that the problem is at these smaller shows where the "hobby growers", "hobby owners/buyers" and "artists/aspiring artists" meet head to head. I can see how it would be hard to judge these types of shows. Maybe different categories would help?
 
I have no idea how you come up with this rationale.

If the Four Season bonsai club has its yearly show and Kathy Shaner is in town and your club offered her 50.00 to do a demo and for some reason she did it, and then someone says hey Kathy while your here could you pick out the best bonsai?

Does Vance Wood somehow catch her on her way to the ladies room and slip her a note....




We're judging trees not egos.


Somehow I feel that someone keeps getting his marbles snacthed by better trees.

That does not deserve a reply more detailed than this.
 
There are those who say that this is stupid and self defeating, trees should be allowed despite ownership?
I am one of those.

That may be, as long as it is not your ox that is being gored, or your efforts that are being marginalized. But; if you have put forward a lot of work to develop and prep a tree and some pendejo comes in with a tree that was designed and prepped by some professional grower and takes all of the marbles
This summarizes pretty well my previous thoughts ...only as an example of what I was saying.

it tends to make those perennial non-winners to stop trying to improve their work. In the end; bonsai has not been forwarded at all, especially when one considers that the shelf life of one of these acquired masterpieces is usually not more than two years.

It sounds like if that's the case, that whomever subscribes to that line of reasoning enjoys the (artificially ego-maintained) lower level of competition. I tend to believe that maintaining artificially low standards would (does) tend to stifle improvement in overall quality.

We're judging trees not egos.
 
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