Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

[Walter Pall]

So @Walter Pall , if you care to indulge a direct question. Perhaps you've addressed this elsewhere but I don't remember seeing it.

Based on your experience with both methods, if one were to obtain 2 identical trees and treat one with your hedge pruning method and the other with "standard" methods, after say 10 years, how far ahead would you think the hedge tree would be in terms of ramification and potential showability? 1 year? 2? 5?

Note by standard methods I don't mean bud pinching which is done on "finished" trees, but rather the technique of allowing shoots to extend, then manually cutting back individual shoots to a specific number of nodes.

coh,

Well, many argue with opinions and assumptions and rumors in this discussion. I want to argue with facts only.



OK take two identical trees - raw material. My students and I have shown on hundreds of trees that it is possible to get a show able tree within 7 to 10 years. By show able I mean for top events, like the Trophy in Europe. With all this experience I dare to say that my method is at least two times if not three times faster than conventional methods. It is not only about rami faction. It is also about the way trees ramify. With the hedge pruning method one usually gets lots of shoots where normally you would never plan for one. Thus the structure becomes clearly more natural (even if you do classic design) with unexpected bends and movements. A totally controlled ramification will comparatively be more sterile and expected. Mind you the hedge pruning is a development method and has very little to do with the style. it can very well be used for classically styled trees.



In addition to ramification we found that branches and trunks get much thicker - up to double in girth over ten years and also get much better taper over the years. This because so many shoots grow all over the crown and will be cut short or off totally at the end of the year. Thus the whole crown is full of "sacrifice branches" . With the growth of trunk and branches the nebari, of course also will grow. Over ten years a trunk and nebari can double in girth and some branches, if not cut three times a season but let grow all year can be up to five times thicker over ten years.

Overall I very vaguely estimate that the hedge pruning method can develop a tree about two to three times faster in ten years than pinching very soon after appearance of shoots. There is no compromise on quality, as so many suggest!



I fail to understand the notion that my method should be more work than the convention one. I chow that the contrary is true - it is much less work.

 

[Adair M]

Terrible analogy, Adair. Besides, you give Japan far too much credit.

Japan's automobile production model, widely attributed as the idea of an American--William Edwards Deming--is vastly different in scope and nature to the art form of miniature trees.

Yes, Japan's ethic of hard work and attention to detail may in fact be superior to many--but not all--in the western world, but their lack of broad-mindedness, ingenuity and creativity has severly held them back. It's retarded their growth. Their Bonsai industry is just one of many other industries in a long-term, slow recession.

This godlike 'fix it' quality inherent and exclusive to the Japanese that you speak of: If your statements are true, then why have many other countries including China and South Korea, rapidly gobbled up Japanese market share for various exports, including automobiles, over the last several years??

At least it's encouraging to read that most bnut posters are logical, and agree that Walter's hedge pruning technique has just as much, if not more merit than the old Japanese way of doing it. His results prove it.

Now Adair, if you would, please do me a favor: politely remind Bjorn where he lives. He sounds lost, perhaps he forgot he moved? In case he did, let him know our American Bonsai doesn't do hard and fast rules.

Ok, don’t like my automobile analogy? How about consumer electronics? Radios, TVs, all that stuff used to be made here, now it went to Japan. And, more recently, Korea and China have been out competing the Japanese. It comes down to labor costs.

One thing to consider, the Japanese, Chinese, pretty much all the Asian countries have been practicing bonsai far longer than we have. Westerners have only discovered bonsai (in its various forms) only since the end of WWII.

I find it rather presumptuous to say that us in the West have figured out a better way to do bonsai than the Asians.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

@Walter Pall Is there somewhere that I can find information on how to practice your technique? I'm very interested in trying this out, but all I can find is ppl arguing about it.

 

[Walter Pall]

@Walter Pall Is there somewhere that I can find information on how to practice your technique? I'm very interested in trying this out, but all I can find is ppl arguing about it.

Sorry, I have had it with this. Every time I write avout it a war starts. Just do some research in this forum.

 

[crust]

Here is the page from the 5th USNationals show book:

View attachment 272699

Wow, is this the "green helmet" style that is talked about?

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Sorry, I have had it with this. Every time I write avout it a war starts. Just do some research in this forum.

Right, that's the problem. Whenever I try to do research all I see is a bunch of ppl arguing over nothing. The results clearly speak for themselves. If you like the technique then great. If not, then fine. Go do something else. They're ruining it for ppl that are genuinely interested. I don't even understand why ppl get so up in arms over this.

 

[Adair M]

Wow, is this the "green helmet" style that is talked about?

Kinda. But, what you can’t see, because of all the little leaves, is the amazing structure. It a semi-cascade root-over-rock broom style. Not something you see every day!

This is why Kokofu is held in February, so you can see the structure.

 

[BobbyLane]

@Walter Pall Is there somewhere that I can find information on how to practice your technique? I'm very interested in trying this out, but all I can find is ppl arguing about it.

Creating ramification (Hedge pruning)

Walter Pall's main blog about bonsai and his work with trees from day to day. Lots of good pictures of good trees and lots of valuable information about bonsai.

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

Walter Pall Bonsai Adventures

Walter Pall's main blog about bonsai and his work with trees from day to day. Lots of good pictures of good trees and lots of valuable information about bonsai.

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

bookmark the links, research....

apply methods, take pics, log results.

dont be the guy who comes back in 5 years asking the same question, where do i find out about the hedging method

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Ok, don’t like my automobile analogy? How about consumer electronics? Radios, TVs, all that stuff used to be made here, now it went to Japan. And, more recently, Korea and China have been out competing the Japanese. It comes down to labor costs.

One thing to consider, the Japanese, Chinese, pretty much all the Asian countries have been practicing bonsai far longer than we have. Westerners have only discovered bonsai (in its various forms) only since the end of WWII.

I find it rather presumptuous to say that us in the West have figured out a better way to do bonsai than the Asians.

Sorry Mr. Know it all, your condescending 'matter of fact' tone embodies presumptuousness my friend.

 

[Animron]

Just a quick question: is this considered as hedge pruning, what they do at Herons Bonsai? Or can we talk about similar technique , with more rough work included? (from 20 mins on a saw has been used which is not a common practice with hedge pruning i guess?)

 

[Walter Pall]

Looks to me very similar. For very raw material this is a very common way of treating bonsai material. No big deal. To use the same method on very much develped and even on already show trees is the issue here.

 

[BobbyLane]

Peter chan's work is more geared towards selling trees on. he is quite brutal in his approach. many of the videos you see are not for preparing showable trees but more for commercial use. its for the customer to buy and improve themselves. some folks take pride in acquiring raw material like this and improving it. i would be more than happy to take any of these trees on and see what i can do with it.

 

[PABonsai]

Right, that's the problem. Whenever I try to do research all I see is a bunch of ppl arguing over nothing. The results clearly speak for themselves. If you like the technique then great. If not, then fine. Go do something else. They're ruining it for ppl that are genuinely interested. I don't even understand why ppl get so up in arms over this.

Check Bonsai Empire too. Walter has explained it a bunch.

 

[AlainK]

John Geanangel has actually developed a landscape planting with power lines running through the canopy of a maple, I believe...

Can't say that I really like it, but that's an interesting idea, an interesting point of view. You know, there are "schools" like the impressionists, or pop-art, this one would be at the right place in a "Nick Lenz school" monography

 

[AlainK]

Every time I write avout it a war starts.

This is not true !

I strongly disagree with this statement and I hope many will post to support my point of view.



Keep posting Walter : at least in all the messages one can find bits of truth here and there. And vice-versa.

Opinions on techniques are one thing, but both Bjorn and you make me improve my vision of both the art and the techniques.



And I think that many put something different behind the phrase "hedge pruning" : I just did some very quick pruning on a pine, and I thought about "hedge pruning". It was actually suppressing twigs and branches that didn't fit in the overall design, quick pruning without bothering too much about lower buds, but it was the right thing to do at this stage of the developpement of the tree. Refining it in two or three years will be different. Different trees, different moments in the life of a tree, different environments, different techniques.

Right ?

I don't like religions so much, but I hate cuts. Sorry, typo: I hate cults.

 

[Rafael Najmanovich]

@Walter Pall Is there somewhere that I can find information on how to practice your technique? I'm very interested in trying this out, but all I can find is ppl arguing about it.

Check the Deciduous development course with Bonsai Empire. HPM is fully and extensively described there.

 

[wireme]

Maters of technique but not necessarily masters of bonsai (my definition as I mentioned earlier)



Maybe this will explain my personal point of view.... This is getting a bit off the topic but you asked...

Check out these two needle junipers. The first one is what you would call a masters work and capable of winning Kokufu if it hasn't already. The second one would never make it there the way things are currently. I don't need to go into the details of how much work was put into the first one because you already know. However, after looking at the whole trees, take a closer look at the detail of the right side. The second tree shows me a true master work. Look at the shaggy bark at it's base. Look at the intentional roughness of the small branches and needles and then look at the polished ''hedged'' monstrosity above it. Take your time and look deeply. Restraint! Something we don't often see but which is extremely important to me and others seeking the true spirit of bonsai. If you ask yourself this simple question while placing yourself ''into'' the tree, - which one makes you feel the wind blowing and the birds singing? You gotta know when to leave things and stop over-working the tree. It is EXTREMELY difficult to do because 1, we can't help ourselves and 2, we fear the response of out peers.
Now think about the word ''master'' again........

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Hi Micheal.

I’ve seen you post a few examples of the latter style of restraint, or “naturalistic”, whatever you want to call it, trees that you admire. Seems like you have a collection of images. Any chance you could start a thread with these kinds of pics? I’d like very much to have them available to study and reference.

 

[coh]

coh,

Well, many argue with opinions and assumptions and rumors in this discussion. I want to argue with facts only.



OK take two identical trees - raw material. My students and I have shown on hundreds of trees that it is possible to get a show able tree within 7 to 10 years. By show able I mean for top events, like the Trophy in Europe. With all this experience I dare to say that my method is at least two times if not three times faster than conventional methods. It is not only about rami faction. It is also about the way trees ramify. With the hedge pruning method one usually gets lots of shoots where normally you would never plan for one. Thus the structure becomes clearly more natural (even if you do classic design) with unexpected bends and movements. A totally controlled ramification will comparatively be more sterile and expected. Mind you the hedge pruning is a development method and has very little to do with the style. it can very well be used for classically styled trees.



In addition to ramification we found that branches and trunks get much thicker - up to double in girth over ten years and also get much better taper over the years. This because so many shoots grow all over the crown and will be cut short or off totally at the end of the year. Thus the whole crown is full of "sacrifice branches" . With the growth of trunk and branches the nebari, of course also will grow. Over ten years a trunk and nebari can double in girth and some branches, if not cut three times a season but let grow all year can be up to five times thicker over ten years.

Overall I very vaguely estimate that the hedge pruning method can develop a tree about two to three times faster in ten years than pinching very soon after appearance of shoots. There is no compromise on quality, as so many suggest!



I fail to understand the notion that my method should be more work than the convention one. I chow that the contrary is true - it is much less work.

Walter, thanks for taking the time to provide that detailed answer. I know it must get tiring going over the same stuff again and again.

The 2-3x faster result is very compelling. I'm not getting any younger, in fact I'm noticing the impacts of aging more and more. So the possibility of speeding up tree development like that is very appealing. I'm definitely going to pick a couple of trees and give your method a go.

I don't know why anyone would think the method is more work, I'm not even sure I've seen anyone make that claim. Seems obvious to me that it would be less work or perhaps the same in the end.

Anyway, thanks again. Happy Holidays!

 

[0soyoung]

Sorry, I have had it with this. Every time I write avout it a war starts.

Yah, something like 5 years ago on IBC, for one prior.
This thread is just a replay.

 

[coh]

Can't say that I really like it, but that's an interesting idea, an interesting point of view. You know, there are "schools" like the impressionists, or pop-art, this one would be at the right place in a "Nick Lenz school" monography

You know, this made me remember - I used to do a lot of painting. One day I was out in one of my favorite painting spots and was feeling uninspired. I think it was the middle of summer, everything was green, couldn't figure out what to paint. There was a cell phone tower in one of the fields and it caught my eye, something about the way the sun reflected off it. So I figured what the heck and made a little 6x8 painting featuring the cell phone tower.

A years or two later I was doing one of those outdoor art shows and I brought that painting along just to see what kind of response it would get. Never expected to sell it. But someone came along and purchased it. I made some kind of comment about "never expected anyone to buy that" and his response was "well, they (cell towers) are part of the modern landscape." Just as butchered trees and power lines are.