Bio-Advanced 3 in 1 Rose Systemic

[Johnathan]

Hello everyone, so I recently noticed some "burnt" tips on my oak tree.







I believe this to be some sort of fungus or disease. When I first got the tree I think it had anthracnose and this tree hasn't gone a full year within something going on with the leaves. And looks like it spread to my elm where the two trees touched at.

So one of my goals this season/year is to get all of my trees in optimal condition. This goal led me here to do more research and I came across a thread or two where my homie @M. Frary was using a Bayer 3 in 1, those links led me to this stuff



The plan was to cut all the infected leaves off, spray the tree really good with Daconil and then use this stuff in the soil, with hopes the Daconil would hold it's own until the systemic could kick in

But then I read the back label and it says not to use this inside containers. Soooooo anyone ever try these granules? (With success) if so, what kind of ratio to container size did you use?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Before you start your biological warfare, have you ruled out mechanical damage from the foliage hitting the fence? It seems like a plausible cause for the damage.

 

[Johnathan]

I haven't ruled out anything, but that first picture is of some foliage that's not able to hit the fence.

After further research, I think it may could be "nutrient burn", but I'm not sure that would explain why it "spread" to the tree next to it, as I haven't fertilized that tree at all

 

[sorce]

I'd try cutting it out first too.

Sorce

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have misdiagnosed mechanical issues all too often, only to find out that the issues persisted after a treatment. If foliage hits other foliage, or a fence, due to some gusts of wind or something, it might show damage that looks a lot like a fungal or overfeeding issue.
That's why I mentioned it.

Fertilizer overfeeding issues should show almost equally over the tree as a whole. A lack of fertilizer would affect the lower parts first.

Both mechanical and fungal issues would be localized but to my knowledge most oaks rarely have foliar issues due to fungi, with mildew being an exception.

Could you tell us what kind of oak it is? And what kind of damage your other tree is showing?

 

[August44]

I bought some seedling amur maples a month ago that were beautiful when I bought them, but when they arrived all of the leaves looked like that. I think they got very hot along the way as there was a weekend involved. I defoliated all of them and they are beautiful again.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Even if it is mechanical damage, or fertilizer burn, it is hard to rule out a biological cause.

If a fungus is suspect the probability of any product giving control increases the sooner it is applied.

 

[JudyB]

I use the Bayer 3 in 1 but the one marked Tree and Shrub protect and feed. I've not had any leaf burn issues with using this, and I don't think it has enough fert in it to be an issue. I fertilize my trees with my normal fert. on top of this, I basically only use this for the pesticide fungicide qualities it has.

 

[Johnathan]

@JudyB I believe you were the person responding in the thread that I found which initially led me to get this stuff. Thank you for responding. The tree and shrubs version didn't specify that it worked against fungus and disease which is why I went with this option. ....... but you're saying you haven't had any fungus or disease at all using the tree and shrubs right?


On a side note, would I be better off returning this and going with a product like Bonide?

 

[JudyB]

I believe mine says fungicide I’ll have to check. No disease control that is listed. Just looked at my current bottle, and fungicide is not on it. This is a new bottle, just finished the last one, could swear it had fungicide...

 

[AJL]

Even if it is mechanical damage, or fertilizer burn, it is hard to rule out a biological cause.

If a fungus is suspect the probability of any product giving control increases the sooner it is applied.

It doesnt look like fungal symptoms at all!! why waste chemicals when you can easily remove the 4 or 5 damaged leaves!

 

[River's Edge]

Hello everyone, so I recently noticed some "burnt" tips on my oak tree.

View attachment 302641

View attachment 302642

View attachment 302643

I believe this to be some sort of fungus or disease. When I first got the tree I think it had anthracnose and this tree hasn't gone a full year within something going on with the leaves. And looks like it spread to my elm where the two trees touched at.

So one of my goals this season/year is to get all of my trees in optimal condition. This goal led me here to do more research and I came across a thread or two where my homie @M. Frary was using a Bayer 3 in 1, those links led me to this stuff

View attachment 302644

The plan was to cut all the infected leaves off, spray the tree really good with Daconil and then use this stuff in the soil, with hopes the Daconil would hold it's own until the systemic could kick in

But then I read the back label and it says not to use this inside containers. Soooooo anyone ever try these granules? (With success) if so, what kind of ratio to container size did you use?

Hello Jonathon, I have used the Bayer three in one Tree and Shrub granular in containers. Maybe check on line to see if ingredients are the same! The instructions are based on the diameter of the trunk! I simply did the math based on the bonsai trunk diameter and cut the dosage in half! Have not experienced any issues with it using that approach. I alter my watering to avoid flushing too much through for the first month as I have inorganic soil and small CEC capacity!
I have also used the Bonide Infuse granular and prefer it for fungal issues. ( broader scope of effectiveness and easier dosage math )

PS: my impression is a fungal issue based on the pictures and your commentary.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I've used all the versions of Bayer systemic and you don't have chemical damage which manifests itself to the whole leaf, and most often, all the leaves. The edges have been damaged somehow and that may or may not have provided a vector to live tissue for bugs or spores to invade the edges in question. Just the edges! Look closely at the black crap to see if there are any eggs or other evidence of past or present occupying critters.

 

[Johnathan]

Okay so I actually took the Bayer/ Bio-advanced stuff back to the store. I decided to go with Bonide infuse instead.

During this time the tree has obviously kept on growing, and now the true culprit is starting to emerge.







I apologize that the picture quality isn't that great, but you can still see the discoloration in the leaves. If your nitpicking you can almost definitely pick a little discolored spot on each leaf.

I understand this is probably something I should've started treatment on before the tree leafed out, So my question now..... I gave it the recommended dosage of the Bonide infuse, should I try and defoliate the tree and apply Daconil as the new leaves emerge, or should I just let it be this year and treat with the bonide in hopes of having a better looking tree next spring?

 

[Jzack605]

Could also be oak shot hole leaf miner

 

[August44]

I am seeing two things...small holes in the leaves that look like something chewed them and then what looks like a fungus around the outside edges...so do you have two problems?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

When a chewing insect, like a leaf miner, makes a hole in a leaf, the edges of the hole naturally dry back some. Also a secondary infection by an opportunistic fungal infection. Usually these opportunistic infections do not persist or spread, and only are a problem where the bug actually damaged a leaf. Usually the fungus disappears when the insect is eliminated.

Usually.

 

[leatherback]

Defoliate. New flush of leaves. PRotect from wind. Problem gone.

 

[Jzack605]

Really? For a tree in training?

Defoliation, while part of bonsai culture, causes stress to a tree. Unless this tree is show ready I’d just let the leaves remain. It’s likely not a tree killing problem and more aesthetic.

 

[Johnathan]

@Peter44 I have seen a couple little flying bugs near the tree, they looked almost like tiny flies, i didn't think they would eat the leaves. I haven't seen anything like a caterpillar or anything, and haven't even heard of oak leaf miners lol

Like I said, this problem was also present last year, which is why I assumed it was some kind of fungus/ disease. Initially I think anthracnose

@leatherback and @Jzack605 just hit the nail on the head for my conundrum. Last year I didn't treat it because it's just a tree growing out. This year, my goal is reduce acquiring trees and just to get everything healthy which led me to start this thread in the first place.

I know defoliation is not ideal/ recommend for pre-pre-bonsai so I wasn't sure if it would be worth it. On the other hand, by leaving the infected leaves on the tree is that just making my systemic treatment obsolete and futile? @Leo in N E Illinois what do you think about this?