Another Mirai Tree Sale in a few days

[Colorado]

That’s what I noticed , thise field grown pines especially, seems like the pots are either undersized and they need more room to develop more right? That’s why I wonder if some of those trees don’t get repotted into a grow pot , and the nice pots they’re in are used for something else or set aside till the tree is ready for them again.

It's interesting to read some of the descriptions. A few of the trees had history beyond Ryan's ownership. That silverberry was one of those, although Ryan said its actual history is unknown. It's an old Japanese import and is pretty darn nice. The hyperbole about its being possibly the best one in N.America is a bit over the top, but it's probably close. There is one at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum donated by John Naka's son that isn't all that much better than the one in Ryan's sale.

One of the more annoying things about most of the trees in the sale (including that silverberry) is that they're potted WAAAAY too high in their pots...it's a common theme.

scroll down here for Nat. Arb. silverberry: https://bonsaitonight.com/2010/11/26/national-bonsai-and-penjing-museum-north-american-pavilion/

My observation/takeaway from many of Ryan’s lectures is that he really leans heavily on the container to constrict roots and reduce foliage size. He talks a lot about it in the context of ponderosas, but it has been mentioned in other contexts too.

Personally, I don’t mind a bit of a mound. I understand this is sacrilege for the ultra-traditional. I do try to minimize in my own practice.

 

[rockm]

My observation/takeaway from many of Ryan’s lectures is that he really leans heavily on the container to constrict roots and reduce foliage size. He talks a lot about it in the context of ponderosas, but it has been mentioned in other contexts too.

Personally, I don’t mind a bit of a mound. I understand this is sacrilege for the ultra-traditional. I do try to minimize in my own practice.

Underpotting a tree can also be a bad habit. I know from experience forcing a wisteria into a pot that's too small and mounding up the root mass like he's done with that $2,000 wisteria will lead to dried out roots and possibly kill the plant if whoever bought it isn't attentive to watering it. Additionally a good wind while that wisteria is in full growth mode will yank that pot off of a bench pretty easily.

Same for the pear and a few others. I understand constricting roots, but some of those trees seemed crammed into pots that are waaay too small, as if the repotters didn't want to move up in size because properly sized show containers are costly...hmmm.

 

[AcerAddict]

I think the most expensive tree I've ever purchased was $450, so I'm not a player at these prices. But I have never purchased a "finished" bonsai from anyone - or even a tree 50% complete. Different strokes for different folks... Invite me over to look at your $10K trees and I will bring free beer!

I have material in various stages from nursery pot seedlings, to air layers that have a good start, to trees that are probably 50% done. Most I've spent on a single tree so far is $400, so I'm in the same range as you for right now. However, I'm looking around for an 80-90% complete tree that really only needs a few more years of development, and I'm willing to spend $1,000 on such a tree when I find one I'm in love with. Really looking forward to the winter silhouette show in Kannapolis this December for that reason.

I think having material that's in different stages of development is beneficial for novice and intermediate bonsai practitioners. It provides visual direction and motivation for my super young trees, but also gives valuable experience in caring for more refined specimens. That said, I wouldn't tell a total bonsai newbie with a bunch of cash to go buy a $1,000 tree, but with many years of gardening and now two solid years of bonsai under my belt, I'd be comfortable taking such a step.

Oh, and if I ever get around to having a $10k tree (not gonna happen!) or maybe at least a $2k or $3k tree, you're welcome to come by and have a beer while we stare at it. I'm only three hours away, after all.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Oh, and if I ever get around to having a $10k tree (not gonna happen!) or maybe at least a $2k or $3k tree, you're welcome to come by and have a beer while we stare at it. I'm only three hours away, after all.

My goal is to end up with $10K trees that I create... not $10K trees I buy from others But again, not gonna knock anyone who does. I know what it is like to "fall in love" with a tree. And though I have never spent thousands on a tree... not going to say it will never happen

 

[Shogun610]

My goal is to end up with $10K trees that I create... not $10K trees I buy from others But again, not gonna knock anyone who does. I know what it is like to "fall in love" with a tree. And though I have never spent thousands on a tree... not going to say it will never happen

This ^ I want to collect and /or develop a tree that could be worth that much

 

[Wood]

If this is the tree, I'll give you $250 for the pot and put the trees in a growing container. I'm on my phone. If you want a critique of the $5,200 POND cypress in the photo, I'd be happy to write one. There's so much to fix and so much that's undeveloped it won't be a Mirai tree when all that work is done.

I might print out this photo as incentive to get me out of this four year period of mourning. There no reason I can't grieve AND stay busy creating beautiful trees. Time to have a bon-fire with everything that died. May as well make a video.

The big tree in the photo gives me an idea for a video: "Badly Collected Tree, or First Step To Greatness?" There is a technique that just might fix the severe flaw in this composition. Collectors in Florida make this collecting error all the time, much to my consternation. They just never fix it. Then they put the trees into pots and into shows with this glaring problem on full display.

I'll have to collect a couple of trees using the collection technique I keep telling people is wrong. Then I'll test the corrective technique. It might the tree look fantastic. I hope I've been wrong all this time.

Wow. I need to keep this idea in my head.

For the members will less Bald and Pond Cypress experience, could you be a little more specific? I'm missing the severe flaw. Why is it poorly collected and how would you fix it?

 

[BillsBayou]

Call me overly sensitive, but I don't like the way this tree is giving me the finger.

 

[rockm]

This ^ I want to collect and /or develop a tree that could be worth that much

Well, that's the issue ain't it. This is a chicken and egg kind of thing...People won't pay $10,000 for a tree, but want to get that for one they develop...

 

[Shogun610]

Well, that's the issue ain't it. This is a chicken and egg kind of thing...People won't pay $10,000 for a tree, but want to get that for one they develop...

I never said I’d sell a tree for 10K but if I have show worthy tree of high quality and what to develop it I’d rather that than buy it

 

[eugenev2]

Well, that's the issue ain't it. This is a chicken and egg kind of thing...People won't pay $10,000 for a tree, but want to get that for one they develop...

I think for some...myself at least...it's not about selling a tree...it's about someone oneday seeing your tree and going "i'll give you $10 000 for that tree"

 

[eugenev2]

My biggest gripe (here where i stay at least), is that so many people sell trees for the equivalent of $50 or $100 and upwards, but they are basically just a stick in a pot. Or similar nurseries that mass produce bonsai trees and there is literally 2000 of them...all looking the same...but they are trying to sell it as if it's someone's labour of tears sweat and love

 

[Piedmont Bonsai]

While you do have to give Ryan credit for capitalizing on his brand.. how much of the price is the “brand markup” and how much is due to the quality of the trees. Yes some of the trees are nice, i particular like the $10k japanese larch and feel that tree is definitely worth the price, but many of the trees are rather… meh.

 

[Srt8madness]

If this is the tree, I'll give you $250 for the pot and put the trees in a growing container. I'm on my phone. If you want a critique of the $5,200 POND cypress in the photo, I'd be happy to write one. There's so much to fix and so much that's undeveloped it won't be a Mirai tree when all that work is done.

I might print out this photo as incentive to get me out of this four year period of mourning. There no reason I can't grieve AND stay busy creating beautiful trees. Time to have a bon-fire with everything that died. May as well make a video.

The big tree in the photo gives me an idea for a video: "Badly Collected Tree, or First Step To Greatness?" There is a technique that just might fix the severe flaw in this composition. Collectors in Florida make this collecting error all the time, much to my consternation. They just never fix it. Then they put the trees into pots and into shows with this glaring problem on full display.

I'll have to collect a couple of trees using the collection technique I keep telling people is wrong. Then I'll test the corrective technique. It might the tree look fantastic. I hope I've been wrong all this time.

Wow. I need to keep this idea in my head.
View attachment 454077

I'm right there with you. Frankly I was a bit taken aback by the 85 year old claim, overestimates of age are a pet peeve.

I'm glad you caught it was a pond cypress too!! I thought the foliage looked off but suspected a recent defoliation may have been the cause, and couldn't blow the pic up on my phone.

I'm a free market guy so a tree is worth what someone will pay. I just don't think we should be expected to ooh and ahh because of that data point alone.

I will say, silverberry throws off the longest, ramrod straight, long internode growth, anyone who can keep one as a bonsai deserves some props.

 

[Vincent Tanner]

As of 8 pm CDT, only 5 left unsold.

I'm surprised the cork-barked ponderosa pine has gone unsold. As propagation stock alone a conifer nursery could easily make a killing on propagating this really rare mutation of the Ponderosa pine. And as bonsai, it is not bad, worth the $5000 he's asking.

Cork Bark Ponderosa Pine

This cork bark ponderosa pine that Randy Knight collected from the Rocky Mountains is incredibly rare with its unique genetic mutation. Bearing literati form in the branch that drops down with multiple pads and continued proliferation of secondary branching, this piece is showable and...

goods.bonsaimirai.com

That thing is actually pretty sweet! My bank account wouldn’t be happy, though.

 

[BillsBayou]

While you do have to give Ryan credit for capitalizing on his brand.. how much of the price is the “brand markup” and how much is due to the quality of the trees. Yes some of the trees are nice, i particular like the $10k japanese larch and feel that tree is definitely worth the price, but many of the trees are rather… meh.

If Mr. Kimura were to come to New Orleans and pull a seedling out of the ground and hand it to me? I'd turn around and sell it on eBay for $200.

Ryan has done a fantastic job of building his brand. He backs it up with being an authority in horticulture and a master of bonsai. America needs a bonsai rock star. It raises the bar for everyone else on what we need to do to make our trees better. It shows that there is money to be made if you're good enough. It also brings awareness to the art. There are many great artists in North America. Ryan's spotlight helps everyone.

 

[BillsBayou]

I'm right there with you. Frankly I was a bit taken aback by the 85 year old claim, overestimates of age are a pet peeve.

I'm glad you caught it was a pond cypress too!! I thought the foliage looked off but suspected a recent defoliation may have been the cause, and couldn't blow the pic up on my phone.

I'm a free market guy so a tree is worth what someone will pay. I just don't think we should be expected to ooh and ahh because of that data point alone.

I will say, silverberry throws off the longest, ramrod straight, long internode growth, anyone who can keep one as a bonsai deserves some props.

I've counted more than 90 rings on bald cypress that weren't as thick as that one. My wife (not a bonsai person) looked at the photo and said "That's not a bald cypress. What is that... pond? Is that a pond cypress?" She said that and I danced laughing. She then asked if I thought it was worth $5,200. I replied "Someone bought it quick. It might have gone for more. That makes it worth $5,200."

At our recent annual bonsai auction, we saw trees going for prices much higher than any of us would think. This was also the most highly attended auction we've ever had. We had a broader market and market value shifted upwards.

At small club auctions, I've been known to outbid myself because I knew the trees were worth much more and I wanted to help the club. Auctioneer was getting silence after my initial bid, "We have $10 for the azalea. Do I hear $12?" and I go "$15!" The auctioneer looked at me as if I had grown a second head, "You just outbid yourself," he said. I then said "$18!" (Meanwhile the same tree would have gone for $150 at our auction.) Someone then out-bid me for the azalea and the club made more money. I ended up spending more than $200 at that auction and they were throwing left over trees into my pile.

Convention auctions, however, have crazy people bidding. Like me. I really wanted a very special Sarah Rayner pot. At one point, I heard the words "Seven hundred dollars" coming out of my mouth. Oh no, did I just say that? Happily for my marriage, I didn't get the pot. I won a different Sarah Rayner pot for less than half that amount, so not a total loss.

Market values are fun.

 

[Ply]

While you do have to give Ryan credit for capitalizing on his brand.. how much of the price is the “brand markup” and how much is due to the quality of the trees. Yes some of the trees are nice, i particular like the $10k japanese larch and feel that tree is definitely worth the price, but many of the trees are rather… meh.

Based on some of the reactions beforehand I was expecting prices to be absurdly inflated but I honestly find most prices quite reasonable. Yes they're very expensive, but they're quality trees, in quality pots ($). All in all most prices are pretty similar to what I see at other bonsai nurseries.

All serious material from any dedicated bonsai nursery is just very very expensive. With or without a famous owner like Ryan. Every minute spent on a tree throughout the years has to be billed, take on top of that the cost of running a nursery and as a cherry a premium pot and it'll quickly add up to more than what most, myself included, would want to spend on a bonsai.

 

[Paradox]

My goal is to end up with $10K trees that I create... not $10K trees I buy from others But again, not gonna knock anyone who does. I know what it is like to "fall in love" with a tree. And though I have never spent thousands on a tree... not going to say it will never happen

I've got a separate bank account that I funnel small amounts of money into now and then as a tree account for someday when I retire and I really can devote the time I want to my trees. Then I will buy one or two really nice trees to enjoy if I find one that I want. Probably wont be $10,000 but maybe $1,000 if the right tree presents itself.

 

[Colorado]

Yeah, if I am being honest, I would love to have a “Mirai Tree” some day. Better start saving now!

 

[BobbyLane]

Yeah, if I am being honest, I would love to have a “Mirai Tree” some day. Better start saving now!

I would prefer to have one that I did myself that 'looks' like a mirai tree.