Akadama users: if akadama becomes unavailable?

[crust]

Akadama users: if akadama becomes unavailable what would you use in its place??

 

[coh]

Maybe DE or bark or a combination of the two. Some pros I've talked to have said they'd just increase the amount of pumice.

 

[coh]

Forgot to add, I might use charcoal either instead of bark or along with bark. Figure it is more resistant to rotting but has a very good CEC value.

 

[Dav4]

Pumice. lava... and a pinch of turface

 

[Vin]

I've been having breakdown issues with akadama and plan on switching to another medium as repotting becomes necessary. For the most part I'm going to use lava in its place.

I might add that I've purchased some zeolite and plan on experimenting with it on a couple trees.

 

[milehigh_7]

Maybe @markyscott will jump in, but I have really been thinking about soil ingredients in terms of, what do you actually want your soil to do? Do you need more water retention or less, do you want a high CEC or do you care, (the ever popular) organic or nah? What are the characteristics of Akadama that make it desirable, and can those characteristics be replaced or 'gasp' improved upon?

I learned long ago that despite my love and respect for Asian cultures, being from Japan does not make it magic...

or always right for that matter...

but I digress...​

 

[milehigh_7]

"a pinch of turface"

 

[Adair M]

Maybe @markyscott will jump in, but I have really been thinking about soil ingredients in terms of, what do you actually want your soil to do? Do you need more water retention or less, do you want a high CEC or do you care, (the ever popular) organic or nah? What are the characteristics of Akadama that make it desirable, and can those characteristics be replaced or 'gasp' improved upon?

I learned long ago that despite my love and respect for Asian cultures, being from Japan does not make it magic...

or always right for that matter...

but I digress...​

Akadama DOES break down over time. When it breaks down, it retains more water.

So, when the tree is freshly repotted, we want rapid root growth. The coarse soil (akadama) encourages rapid root growth. Later, the tree will put on more leaves or needles. At this time, the tree requires more water. Since the akadama is breaking down, it retains more water, just what the tree needs!

Eventually, the akadama will break down too much, and it becomes mud. Time to repot! Replace old soil with new, and begin the cycle again.

Akadama is not unique to Japan. Many volcanos produce it. There is akadama in the Pacific Northwest. It could be mined and sold.

There are various grades of akadama. Some break down very easily, and some hardly break down at all! Trial and error will eventually lead you to figuring out which akadama is best for your trees in your microclimate.

If akadama becomes unavailable, would just use lava and pumice as my basic mix.

 

[Ironbeaver]

If akadama is outlawed, only outlaws will use akadama.

 

[chansen]

More pumice.

 

[milehigh_7]

I think with bonsai is more like religion than most folks realize. Many times people will use a soil component or a tool brand or favor a particular teacher because everyone else does not because they are thinking through why.

If the OP wanted to know what would replace Akadama, I guess I want to know what Akadama does for you that you are trying to replace? Is there a characteristic(s) that make some people like it or is it just more Superthrive? If it is good stuff, why?

 

[flyinmanatee]

Would someone elaborate on why it would become unavailable or we rocking hypothetical here?

 

[JudyB]

I would think about using some kanuma in my mix at that point, and more hyuga as well.

 

[Adair M]

I would think about using some kanuma in my mix at that point, and more hyuga as well.

Kanuma is very similiar to akadama. The two materials are found at the same locations, one strata lies above the other.

@milehigh_7, see my post above about the properties of akadama, and why it works particurely well for bonsai. Nothing else acts like akadama or is a “substitute” for akadama. That said, it is not necessary to use akadama if you don’t want to. Many successful bonsai artists don’t use it. All of the bonsai community in Japan use it. It’s cheap there. It’s the shipping that runs the price up for us.

If there was a “substitute” that performs like akadama, and is less expensive, I’d use it. So far, there isn’t one.

 

[Vin]

I would think about using some kanuma in my mix at that point, and more hyuga as well.

Initially I was thinking kanuma but I'm not sure if the cost would outweigh any additional benefit over lava or pumice.

 

[Adair M]

Initially I was thinking kanuma but I'm not sure if the cost would outweigh any additional benefit over lava or pumice.

If akadama becomes unavailable, so would Kanuma. It comes from the same quarries. It’s just deeper.

 

[Vin]

Kanuma is very similiar to akadama. The two materials are found at the same locations, one strata lies above the other.

@milehigh_7, see my post above about the properties of akadama, and why it works particurely well for bonsai. Nothing else acts like akadama or is a “substitute” for akadama. That said, it is not necessary to use akadama if you don’t want to. Many successful bonsai artists don’t use it. All of the bonsai community in Japan use it. It’s cheap there. It’s the shipping that runs the price up for us.

If there was a “substitute” that performs like akadama, and is less expensive, I’d use it. So far, there isn’t one.

Have you tried caladama? I have and it seems to be about the same as akadama though it is noticeably harder.

 

[Adair M]

Have you tried caladama? I have and it seems to be about the same as akadama though it is noticeably harder.

Not at all similiar. Calidama is broken up California hardpan and has sharp edges. Akadama is rounded. Calidama doesn’t break down. Akadama does. (See my post above that explains why that is a good thing)

I live on the East Coast. By the time I pay for shipping the cost of Calidama is about the same as akadama.

@Vin, there are deposits of akadama in the Pacific Northwest. No one has bothered to mine it.

 

[coh]

Akadama: holds water well (even more as it ages/breaks down), holds some nutrients (medium CEC level), allows roots to penetrate. What else is like that...bark seems pretty similar. It gradually ages/breaks down and holds more water, allows roots to penetrate, has an even higher CEC than akadama from what I've read. What are the problems with bark...uses nitrogen as it breaks down? Stronger acid response? Those are the kinds of things you hear, though I'm not sure how true they are. Charcoal is a more stable version of bark, it has a high CEC and doesn't break down as quickly.

Ryan Neil has said he is looking at DE as a possible replacement for akadama if it becomes unavailable. I don't think it breaks down like akadama but apparently it holds water in a similar way and has a higher CEC. Lots of people seem to use the NAPA DE product successfully.

We had someone give an interesting short talk at our last club meeting. He studied all of the available soil components and measured their water contents and porosity. Perhaps not surprisingly, he found that akadama sat right in the middle of the desired target zone (when new, not after it has broken down). All other components were further from that sweet spot. However, he found that you could combine various ingredients such that the resulting water content and porosity were very close to that of akadama. So I think people will survive if akadama becomes unavailable.

 

[milehigh_7]

Akadama: holds water well (even more as it ages/breaks down), holds some nutrients (medium CEC level), allows roots to penetrate. What else is like that...bark seems pretty similar. It gradually ages/breaks down and holds more water, allows roots to penetrate, has an even higher CEC than akadama from what I've read. What are the problems with bark...uses nitrogen as it breaks down? Stronger acid response? Those are the kinds of things you hear, though I'm not sure how true they are. Charcoal is a more stable version of bark, it has a high CEC and doesn't break down as quickly.

Ryan Neil has said he is looking at DE as a possible replacement for akadama if it becomes unavailable. I don't think it breaks down like akadama but apparently it holds water in a similar way and has a higher CEC. Lots of people seem to use the NAPA DE product successfully.

We had someone give an interesting short talk at our last club meeting. He studied all of the available soil components and measured their water contents and porosity. Perhaps not surprisingly, he found that akadama sat right in the middle of the desired target zone (when new, not after it has broken down). All other components were further from that sweet spot. However, he found that you could combine various ingredients such that the resulting water content and porosity were very close to that of akadama. So I think people will survive if akadama becomes unavailable.

Finally! This is the kind of answer I was looking for. I don't use the stuff but I am aware of the properties that make it desirable. I think we do ourselves an injustice by not knowing "why." At this time I am really enjoying learning how to grow using DE (Optisorb about 20-30% larger than 8822) as my majority ingredient. I cleaned up the old chart from another thread and added the specs for DE. Here it is if anyone wants it.