Why should a tree bow to the viewer?

[Gabler]

I've seen it mentioned in a couple of recent threads, and it seems like the question deserves its own thread.

My own answer is just speculation, but that speculation gets to the heart of why we grow bonsai: trees help us to feel at home, and a bowing tree invites the viewer to approach. In undergrad, I studied prehistorical archaeology and human evolution. In a introductory course, my professor emphasized that when humans began to walk upright, we did not stand up from the ground—we descended from the trees. Primates are an arboreal order of mammals. The earliest known primates were tiny squirrel-like creatures that took refuge from megafauna in the trees. This is what our great great great great ... great great great grandma looked like:



The tree was a source of food and shelter. Our ancestors probably had no reason to ever leave the trees, except maybe to find water. For over sixty million years, our ancestors lived their entire lives in the treetops. It was only about two million years ago that we began to descend from the trees and walk upright, repurposing our branch-grabbing hands for grasping tools. It is no coincidence that we love trees today. It is no exaggeration to say that a love of trees is in our blood. It is only natural that we prefer trees which beckon toward us.

 

[Joelshack2362]

Glad our great great great great grandparents had the courage to leave the tree tops. If not our story would be alot different. Again for me what is considered too progressive and what's too conservative is there a true balance? Maybe it's okay to have courage and try different bow angels or directions. I have learned over my very few years in bonsai that my eyes attract more too trees that bow towards the viewer. My few developing trees i have brainstormed designs that bow towards the viewer. I guess time will tell.

 

[KateM]

She's cute and we love trees, but it looks like a beginng of another rabbit hole.

 

[rockm]

Has nothing really to do with welcoming or Asian formalities. It has to do with fooling the viewer’s eye. The “bow” pushes the top of the tree towards the the viewer the close the viewer gets. That makes the viewer’s eye percieve the top of the tree towering over them. Much the same way that as you approach a full size tree the more it feels like the tree towering over you

Simply put. It adds to the visual foreshortening of the bonsai’s trunk.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Yep, makes the tree seem taller. Also, somehow over time, they seem to develop this tendency anyway, through pruning and styling without much deliberate effort. It’s amusing to look down the line of my benches and see most of the trees have that slight forward lean.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I am also interested in our ancestral history and studied anthropology a bit in college. As a student of geology, I am fascinated by the vastness of time and how our Earth has changed. Mountains have risen, been worn flat, and risen again.

The last few million years have seen dramatic changes in our own evolution, and that's only a relatively tiny part of our past!

Edit: I forgot to mention trees! Yes! I think our fascination with trees comes from our never-ending dependence on them.

 

[ABCarve]

P

Thread 'Tree bowing toward observer?'

Aug 28, 2016

Have heard this said that tree should be and agree however have one big question. Is whole or just upper trunk to bow forward? Is just apex bowing forward the standard? Is there actual written standard for this or just rule of thumb or spoken "soft" rule for this?

• Potawatomi13
• Replies: 12
• Forum: General Discussion

 

[penumbra]

In some of my forest plantings I intentionally have the largest tree bowing away to increase the sense of perspective.

 

[Wulfskaar]

In some of my forest plantings I intentionally have the largest tree bowing away to increase the sense of perspective.

It seems counter-intuitive to bow forward unless your eyes are at trunk level.

 

[Gabler]

P

Thread 'Tree bowing toward observer?'

Aug 28, 2016

Have heard this said that tree should be and agree however have one big question. Is whole or just upper trunk to bow forward? Is just apex bowing forward the standard? Is there actual written standard for this or just rule of thumb or spoken "soft" rule for this?

• Potawatomi13
• Replies: 12
• Forum: General Discussion

I looked for older threads on the topic before starting this thread, but the thread you just shared didn't show up in my search for some reason.

 

[JudyB]

It seems counter-intuitive to bow forward unless your eyes are at trunk level.

Which is where you should be looking at your trees as you work with them. Trees should be viewed straight across the pot at eye level. If you work them from above you will make decisions based on the wrong viewing angle.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Which is where you should be looking at your trees as you work with them. Trees should be viewed straight across the pot at eye level. If you work them from above you will make decisions based on the wrong viewing angle.

That is a great point. I certainly try to photograph my trees from lower angles, so I need to work on them that way too.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I looked for older threads on the topic before starting this thread, but the thread you just shared didn't show up in my search for some reason.

LOL…I know why it didn’t show up for you either…

 

[Gabler]

LOL…I know why it didn’t show up for you either…

Why is that?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Why is that?

If I have a member on ignore, their threads don’t show up in my feed.

 

[Gabler]

If I have a member on ignore, their threads don’t show up in my feed.

Ah. I don't have anyone on ignore. I'm guessing it's just because it's an old thread, and the search engine prioritizes newer threads.

 

[ABCarve]

Why is that?

It showed up for me when I started to type in a new thread down at the bottom of the page.

I'm a little skeptical of the explanation that Adair gives. I do mostly tilt my trees but I've found the explanations lacking. I agree with the statement of "great depth". I've dealt with this idea of foreshortening in a different media. This photo is a relief carving I did in the 80's which puts the viewers point of view on the end of the boom. It is very foreshortened and makes an illusion of great depth in a space of about an inch. It doesn't make the boat or anything in the composition look shorter than it actually is. It just compresses the space. Most of the illusion is accomplished by the converging lines of the ropes, boom and and objects becoming smaller as they recede into the background.



It seems to me a greater effect would be to have exaggerated reverse taper in the branching facing the viewer just as the ropes do in the carving. I don;t think anyone here believes they would do that to their own tree, including me.

Which is where you should be looking at your trees as you work with them. Trees should be viewed straight across the pot at eye level. If you work them from above you will make decisions based on the wrong viewing angle.

I have never worked on a tree at this level. I don't see professional photography taken from this level. I work on them with my eye at the level of what I'm working on and maybe above it. When I step back 6 feet or so to admire my work (or not ), my eye level is mostly at the middle of the tree. The vast majority of exhibitions put trees on a 30" banquet table and maybe a 6-8" stand, still leaving the soil line well below eye level.

One of the problems with Adairs explanation is that you don't see the same tree without the top tilting forward. You just accept what he's said as "it must be true" because it's a very nice tree.
A few years ago my pals and I went to the Columbus, OH club show. The exhibit was full of trees leaning away from you......enough that we all commented on it and said "they mustn't have gotten the memo". However, going back through the show and looking again, I realized that I wasn't really offended by it. Sometimes we just get too sensitized to a convention and think there's no other way.

I still haven't explained why it works, so have at it.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

To me it makes sense to work the tree at the height it will be displayed at, including the table or stand you plan to use for it,

Its amazing how much changes it brings to a design having the tree slightly higher or lower when working it

 

[JudyB]

I have never worked on a tree at this level. I don't see professional photography taken from this level. I work on them with my eye at the level of what I'm working on and maybe above it. When I step back 6 feet or so to admire my work (or not ), my eye level is mostly at the middle of the tree. The vast majority of exhibitions put trees on a 30" banquet table and maybe a 6-8" stand, still leaving the soil line well below eye level.

One of the problems with Adairs explanation is that you don't see the same tree without the top tilting forward. You just accept what he's said as "it must be true" because it's a very nice tree.
A few years ago my pals and I went to the Columbus, OH club show. The exhibit was full of trees leaning away from you......enough that we all commented on it and said "they mustn't have gotten the memo". However, going back through the show and looking again, I realized that I wasn't really offended by it. Sometimes we just get too sensitized to a convention and think there's no other way.

I still haven't explained why it works, so have at it.

I see professional photography of trees taken from the middle point of the tree, not above facing down. Perhaps I wasn't clear that you should be working your tree from that angle. If you're working from above, you might be making mistakes for the overall image from the middle point of the tree. I personally don't like trees that either lean too much forward or too much backwards. A little nuance goes a long way here and really depends on the size of the tree how much you need to angle to present the image of forwards lean.

There are lots of shows that need to raise the level of the tables, it was a point of discussion at the winter silhouette show that the tables are much too low, as most exhibitors build the trees and displays to be seen at eye level.

Honestly I wouldn't use the Columbus show as a benchmark for excellence or how to present your trees. Just saying....

 

[ABCarve]

I see professional photography of trees taken from the middle point of the tree, not above facing down. Perhaps I wasn't clear that you should be working your tree from that angle. If you're working from above, you might be making mistakes for the overall image from the middle point of the tree. I personally don't like trees that either lean too much forward or too much backwards. A little nuance goes a long way here and really depends on the size of the tree how much you need to angle to present the image of forwards lean.

There are lots of shows that need to raise the level of the tables, it was a point of discussion at the winter silhouette show that the tables are much too low, as most exhibitors build the trees and displays to be seen at eye level.

Honestly I wouldn't use the Columbus show as a benchmark for excellence or how to present your trees. Just saying....

Thanks for the clarification. I do agree with you on the rest.