Rule of thumb for root reduction of Hornbeams?

[WavyGaby]

"If you’re going to be this aggressive with root removal, it needs to happen when the tree is starting to grow and can respond with growth."

Agree That's why I mentioned it's a bit early for collection. Collecting while the tree is completely dormant can be a problem as you remove roots that store some of the tree's resources it has yet to draw on. Early spring is best for this species, as buds swell and are just about to open is optimal.

Also, I assume "APL" is akadama, pumice and lava...That might be too lean for a hornbeam. Hornbeam is a bottomland species, growing in very moist environments along streams and flood prone areas of rivers. I've always added 1/3 granular organics (sifted composted pine bark, "fine" grade orchid soil) to the soil I use with collected hornbeam.

Thank you, and good call. Definitely found these by a creek. Yes, akadama, pumice, lava. Also, I forgot to mention the bottom third was APL mixed with pine bark and turface for more moisture retention.

 

[rockm]

Thank you, and good call. Definitely found these by a creek. Yes, akadama, pumice, lava. Also, I forgot to mention the bottom third was APL mixed with pine bark and turface for more moisture retention.

In general, Layering soil is not a great thing to do. Roots appreciate an even soil mix throughout the container. They can be reluctant to cross boundaries of differing soil types and compositions...FWIW, next time, I'd skip the APL. go with a quality "regular" bonsai mix that has more moisture retaining ingredients like haydite and a bit of organic. What you have now is a soil that will dry out on top and possibly stay soggy at the bottom..

 

[Scrogdor]

This is the American Hornbeam in question. It has this gigantic root that jets out. Decent radial roots all the way around otherwise, they just need to thicken.

Apologies if this is a dumb question but…

1) In regards to doing major root reduction on this, what happens if I just cut that entire root off?
2) I’m a little confused on the right time to basically excavate this tree from the nursery pot into smaller pot in 10a. Chopping the roots too early would waste all the stored energy in the roots, yet I hear major root reduction cannot be done once buds open.
Asking because my elms have started to wake up, and my European hornbeam buds are beginning to swell. I don’t want to miss the window for this as it still appears dormant.

 

[WavyGaby]

This is the American Hornbeam in question. It has this gigantic root that jets out. Decent radial roots all the way around otherwise, they just need to thicken.

Apologies if this is a dumb question but…

1) In regards to doing major root reduction on this, what happens if I just cut that entire root off?
2) I’m a little confused on the right time to basically excavate this tree from the nursery pot into smaller pot in 10a. Chopping the roots too early would waste all the stored energy in the roots, yet I hear major root reduction cannot be done once buds open.
Asking because my elms have started to wake up, and my European hornbeam buds are beginning to swell. I don’t want to miss the window for this as it still appears dormant.

1) It will should be ok. You will know how many feeder roots it has and its importance once you pull it out of the pot
2) now should be a good time to repot if it is still dormant. If not, maybe wait until late summer.

 

[Scrogdor]

Do the methods of massive root reductions mentioned in this post work for Korean Hornbeams as well? I have a KHB pre-bonsai that has a ridiculously long tap root, and I am wondering how much I can reduce it safely. Here is a picture and what seems to be the length of the tap/large root. I was just poking around with the chop stick.

I'll also add that I believe it was dug from growing grounds last winter/spring.

 

[WavyGaby]

FWIW, I don't collect until the beginning/mid March. Too early and you risk die back. Good luck!

I'm going to wait until late winter to dig any more this year. Upper half of each trunk is dead on this one

 

[WavyGaby]

Do the methods of massive root reductions mentioned in this post work for Korean Hornbeams as well? I have a KHB pre-bonsai that has a ridiculously long tap root, and I am wondering how much I can reduce it safely. Here is a picture and what seems to be the length of the tap/large root. I was just poking around with the chop stick.

I'll also add that I believe it was dug from growing grounds last winter/spring.

Not sure but it will be fine without that root as long as it has enough other roots. You can try cutting it and others back in sequences or maybe wait another year to do more aggressive root work if you have no other reason to repot.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Very informative thread. Seems I am being too gentle on my root pruning. I tend to go hog wild taking off all roots other than lateral ones, but then get scared to cut back the lateral ones too far (which will affect the look of the nebari). It seems that deciduous trees are generally forgiving of root pruning. Are there deciduous trees that are generally more or less forgiving that the noobs should know about? Trident maples seem to be able to take some serious work.

 

[sorce]

It's always a bummer till you repot in summer!

Sorce

 

[dbonsaiw]

It's always a bummer till you repot in summer!

Repotting in summer when plants can't get no water
And you don't know magic like Harry Potter
Oh drought, I wish I had not fought her
Now my garden looks like a slaughter
Should have repotted in an earlier quarter

 

[sorce]

Repotting in summer when plants can't get no water
And you don't know magic like Harry Potter
Oh drought, I wish I had not fought her
Now my garden looks like a slaughter
Should have repotted in an earlier quarter

I keep thinking you're in Texas!

Trust the summer!

"Rule of thumb" though, ONLY, is a healthy plant.

Sorce

 

[Adamski77]

As I came across this one… @Gsteil … did these trees ever make it through?

 

[leatherback]

Are there deciduous trees that are generally more or less forgiving that the noobs should know about? Trident maples seem to be able to take some serious work.

One that comes to mind is Larch
Japanese maples are more sensitive than carpinus, ulmus, Zelkova, Olea.
Wisteria, Hibiscus I am carefull with
Oaks can be iffy

 

[BobbyLane]

how much is safe to remove is just one of those things you learn over time. I think too many go through tip toeing over everything bonsai and end up not really learning anything. its ok to experiment, if a few get killed or overworked along the way its part of the process.

 

[WavyGaby]

As I came across this one… @Gsteil … did these trees ever make it through?

Yes! The single trunk is really healthy except for die back in the upper half that will get cut off.
The double trunk stalled a bit and I lost the upper half of each trunk. I have several healthy branches mid way and low though.

 

[Jrmcmich]

Yes! The single trunk is really healthy except for die back in the upper half that will get cut off.
The double trunk stalled a bit and I lost the upper half of each trunk. I have several healthy branches mid way and low though.

Trees come back this year? Just wondering how second year is after collecting?

 

[WavyGaby]

Yes, both are alive and well! I repotted them earlier this year. I have a thread on them called Hornbeam Collected From NC. I'll try to post a link to it when I get to a computer. Not sure how to do it with my phone.

Thanks for asking which reminded me that I need some spring photos.

 

[Jrmcmich]

Yes, both are alive and well! I repotted them earlier this year. I have a thread on them called Hornbeam Collected From NC. I'll try to post a link to it when I get to a computer. Not sure how to do it with my phone.

Thanks for asking which reminded me that I need some spring photos.

Thanks will try to find it. I collected a hornbeam this spring with not much roots so definitely glad to hear yours are alive and well. I have growth but know it could be stored energy in trunk.

 

[Owlman]

I've done several hornbeam that had maybe one squiggly feeder root when collected and all survived. I did protect them for the first 2 months though.

 

[Jrmcmich]

Unfortunately not best soil it’s in as I didn’t have optimal soil when I collected. Just keeping eye to make sure it doesn’t stay too wet. All trees are inside for next day until frost advisory is done.