Wires_Guy_Wires 6 year JBP thread

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I don't do dunking, no. I water with a hose shower, like this one:

This is all tap water, with a pH of around 8. That's too high and it's part of the reason why the pines are so yellow. If it rains more, the pH would naturally drop to around 6. Better take up of metals and nitrogen in that range of acidity.
Another reason, especially for the individual pines, is that they're mounted on a piece of plastic to create a root flare in early development. The roots are still in the upper layer of the pots and these plants have been repotted not that long ago.
You can see a clear difference in foliage color between the 2 pines that are mounted on plastic, and the 2 that are not mounted on plastic. 2 are yellow, 2 are green.

It might not seem like much, but there's a plan and reason behind everything I do. Maybe the wrong reason, maybe the wrong plan too!

@Kendo Are you participating in the contest too? I would like to see how you approach growing JBP from seed. We have different ideas and different backgrounds, I think it would be very interesting to see the differences in the way we do things.

 

[Kendo]

@Kendo Are you participating in the contest too? I would like to see how you approach growing JBP from seed. We have different ideas and different backgrounds, I think it would be very interesting to see the differences in the way we do things.

Im not in some competition. Thank you. Tonight when soak I make photograpy for you. Hai

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Foliage is on fire! Damn. Compared to red pines, these black pines are pussies when it comes to cold. Compare them to the scots pines on the right, which are still growing.. And one might conclude that this isn't JBP country.


But there's a faint sound.. A little barking.


Now that's a vague one.

Luckily it's raining again. And it seems like we're getting a good winter. That'll thin out their numbers and I'm fine with that. I don't wanna raise no pussy pines. Except for bristlecones.

Coming spring, they will be individually planted in those bag-containers made out of fabric. This allows me to pack them up close together, and it allows the plants to get good feeder roots.
Instead of pine bark, I'll be using partially degraded beech flakes. Those are cheaper and come in smaller sizes. Fun thing to know is that these flakes are used for vinegar production.
All soil will be pre-mixed, pre-manured and inoculated with mycorrhizae this winter. That way we're off to a good start this spring. I don't like planning ahead like that, but these are boring months.

Lava rock + clay pellets + beech flakes 1:2:1.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Cool trick: just throw some snow on them, and they go from purple to green.

 

[my nellie]

That's really A Trick!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Hmmm, the trick doesn't always seem to work! There's some vivid reds in there.

 

[Fonz]

Now you're telling me, I just threw some snow on mine to see what effect it has

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Well, the first snow fell when they were still active. That might have caused them to respond to the cold.
Now they're fully dormant and don't respond at all. But then again, they could be dead too!
They're out in the open, with -8 degrees C. This morning I measured their temperature with a laser thermometer, and the pines themselves were -6 degrees.

Oh well. The red pines made it last year, with -15C. So if these black pines are the masculine form of those, they should be able to handle it. And if they don't make it, than I don't want them in my backyard for 60 years to come.
Spring will tell if I'm in possession of a graveyard or a nursery. I can't wait!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Alright, back to the growing season again. As if it ever stopped.. No buds have formed until now and the pines just kept on growing the entire winter. Then the temperature went up, and after that it dropped again to freezing.


I did mount two pines onto plastic sheets so that their roots would flare out. After the hard frosts, I figured those were the ones that wouldn't make it. I forgot which of the containers they were sitting in, so after seeing two pines die on me, I figured to check them out.

It seems the dead ones were the ones that rooted the deepest. In the shallow pots I have lost 1 or 2 out of 40 or so. In deeper pots I lost 50%.
What's the lesson here?
Ice. Ice is a killer.

Culling events like this are natural. I want these pines to last over 50 years, so they need to be able to handle some local weather.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Man, I'm dealing with a bad case of the yellows!

So here goes another diagnostics run:
Always, bottoms first. Ask any well paid stripper.
Soil: how does it look, how does it smell, how wet is it?
Looks moist, damp. Some roots are brownish. Smells like soil, not rancid or like crap. It's pretty wet sometimes.
Trunk: any signs?
No signs.
Foliage: only the new stuff, the old stuff too? What is the color?
Old and new, the color is yellow.
Techniques: anything noteworthy?
I didn't repot. I did some heavy feeding that did not counter the issue. My water pH is around 8 and it has been dry, so all water comes from the tap.

So there's yellow, which is pointing towards the plants inability to take up or process nitrogen.
Why are magnesium and/or iron ruled out? Because of the high pH, they only wash out at low pH ranges and tap water contains plenty of those nutrients.
Alright, so the yellows. We know pH affects nitrogen uptake, adding nitrogen didn't work. So this points towards a pH issue. But pH issues alone would be fixed with a few waterings, that didn't happen.. So there must be more to this!

Now, see how it affects the entire plant? This means that something in the root area isn't up to par. It's the soil that stays wet for too long. This turns trees yellow all over, with some brownish spots here and there.
Combine that with a pH that's too high, and nitrogen is blocked. Combo breaker!


Don't mention the black bird carcasses.




Solution? Water less, and adjust the pH. Repot in fall to get a better draining soil.
It's going to cost me a year of growing. But another lesson learned, which is a valuable thing as well.

 

[ysrgrathe]

If you are concerned about pH and/or nitrogen uptake, you have wood in your soil. IIRC wood tends to contribute to low pH, and as it breaks down nitrogen is locked up by microbes decomposing the wood.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

All of my JBP look like this. Even though they're in pretty coarse soil and freely draining and breathing pots.


As you can see, JBP doesn't like full soil either. It's been like this since last year.

I have to admit it, it seems that JBP just isn't for me. Red pine is doing fine, I'm entering the third year of growing longeava, halepensis is doing fine, mugo's are doing fine, jack pine is doing fine, ponderosa is doing fine, scots pine is doing fine. Heck, all of my conifers are doing great. It's only the JBP that are being a bitch about nearly everything.

This raises the question: Am I willing to deal with that for the rest of their/my life? Am I prepared to take time every day to give these babies a special treatment for the next forty or so years?
I sure as hell don't. I'm not dropping out of the contest, but in all honesty I'm not going to try and save these black pines either.

I bought some nursery black pines from Germany, 3-4 years old. Just to learn a bit more on how they behave and what techniques work for them. But after two years under my wing, they seem to decline just like the seedlings. It doesn't seem seed batch related, or climate related because the other Dutchies can keep them thriving, it seems that it has to do with something in my back yard or with me personally.
Now since I as a person have to care for these plants, in my own backyard, there's a conflict. I did my best to resolve it! But the pines didn't. Or maybe they did but it's not working.
Three to four different soils, different types of pots, rainwater only, special watering schedule, special feeding regimen, nothing seems to make a difference. All care ends today, they can "thrive" on neglect if they want from now on.

Oh well, at least I tried. I'm not sad about it, nor frustrated. It is what it is. Roughly 20 dollars well spent on valuable lessons. I'm going to focus on the pines that do well from now on.

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Are they in full sun.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

They get full sun from as soon as the sun is up, until the late afternoon during summer.
I placed a few in the half shade to see how they would do, but there's no difference between the groups.

 

[Anthony]

First image - weeds in the pots ?
Rooting for you.
Anthony

 

[DirkvanDreven]

They get full sun from as soon as the sun is up, until the late afternoon during summer.
I placed a few in the half shade to see how they would do, but there's no difference between the groups.

You should be able to get better results than that! JBP in The Netherlands or Belgium will never be able to compete with those in Japan, Califonia or Texas. But even mine are doing better than yours!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I know I should be able to, I mean, how hard can it be?! But it's just not happening @DirkvanDreven .
I've added JBP to the list of four plants I just can't seem to grow. On the plus side, the other 80+ species of plants do just fine. I can get enough satisfaction out of those. No hard feelings ;-)

Still I'd like Team Netherlands to take the trophy!

 

[leatherback]

The question now is.. As I have your yellow bastards (at least, some of those that lived).. am I part of the contest? And do I start my own thread or do I take this one?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Good question! @Bonsai Nut you're the chief of operations here, can Leatherback play with my pinus instead?
It's fine by me either way, to continue in this thread or to start another.

 

[leatherback]

Just for completeness:

dead pine seedlings

@Wires_Guy_wires loves to hate black pine seedlings. So after growing some of them from seed for what must have felt like eons, he decided to bin them. Instead I suggested he drops them in a box to me. The Dutch mail did what they are supposed to do and I received a box of dirt with some yellow...

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