Does anyone know where Superfly got their Akadama from?
Where did superfly get Haydite from?
- Thread starter Alfi
- Start date
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(jk)
BillsBayou
Chumono
Remarkably civil for a soil discussion. Just wait until I introduce you all to a soil blend that will supersede Boon's mix. Mine will be called "Bill's Blend". The key ingredient is Mexadama. It's something that you can get for free all across the United States, but you have to know how to look for it.The most important question as we all know is Where is Waldo?
Good discussion and information, and fairly civil!
Gabler
Masterpiece
I'm waiting.
pandacular
Masterpiece
Wait, so after all this, you’ve finally come around to accepting a similar substitute? Remarkable.
Srt8madness
Omono
Bingooooo
Would love to see some of these trees this irreplaceable haydite is producing.
Lol what?
I am still trying to purchase the exact same substrate, Norlite.
If and only if Norlite can’t be purchased anymore (currently NOT verified to be the case), then yes I would have no choice but to consider something 95%+ similar (Solite). But it’s not “accepting”, I’d have no choice.
I would still not buy Buildex Haydite, which seems to be around 10% visually similar and now verified to be a completely different type of shale.
Also, again, the purpose of the thread was find the exact source of Superfly’s substrate. Not find similar ones. How could I find a “similar substitute” to something I can’t identify? How could I know Solite is similar to Superfly’s Superdite if I didn’t know it was actually Norlite?
Now that I know it’s Norlite, I can consider options similar to it (if I can’t buy Norlite). Hell, it doesn’t even have to be Solite…I need Expanded Esopus Shale mined to the west of the Hudson river. There may be more companies…haven’t looked yet. Now that I know what to look for, I can find VERY similar substrates. Buildex Haydite is NOT a similar substrate (to me).
“vital component”
“special”
“magic”
“holy grail”
“end all”
“mysterious”
“irreplaceable”
These were the words used to describe this substrate in this thread. None of them were used by me.
I stuck to facts. It either came from a specific mine, or it didn’t. I never took the bait to answer why I wanted this exact substrate.
We got the answer and it’s time to move on. If you want to know who was right and who was wrong, simply re-read from the beginning; now that we know what it is.
I thank the couple people who actually tried to help.
Without explaining why, and to end this thread with a compromise, I will post a link to a video of Adam from Mythbusters talking about pencils. I think the whole video is excellent, but it’s a long back-story, so start at 9:00 if you want (to the end).
You’ll either get it, or you won’t.
“special”
“magic”
“holy grail”
“end all”
“mysterious”
“irreplaceable”
These were the words used to describe this substrate in this thread. None of them were used by me.
I stuck to facts. It either came from a specific mine, or it didn’t. I never took the bait to answer why I wanted this exact substrate.
We got the answer and it’s time to move on. If you want to know who was right and who was wrong, simply re-read from the beginning; now that we know what it is.
I thank the couple people who actually tried to help.
Without explaining why, and to end this thread with a compromise, I will post a link to a video of Adam from Mythbusters talking about pencils. I think the whole video is excellent, but it’s a long back-story, so start at 9:00 if you want (to the end).
You’ll either get it, or you won’t.
Gabler
Masterpiece
It's rude when you're asking for help to rebuff the people who are trying to help you. This thread produced a significant amount of useful information, and you rejected it without explaining why you need to identify a specific mine and manufacturing facility for Superfly Haydite. Lacking a clear explanation, other commenters joked that it must be a “vital component,” “special,” “magic,” the “holy grail," the “end all,” “mysterious,” and “irreplaceable.” It's only natural for others to fill in the gaps when you're so cagey about the context for your question.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I used all those words. I'd use them again. You're no more right now than you were before you began this idiotic journey (got Haydite?) Consider yourself one less person who can help down. I, for one, find you too much effort, not enough smarts--and the self-importance requires hip waders. No thank you...I know you won't care, but I'd imagine I'm not the only one...
Happy haydite!
MaciekA
Shohin
You've asked real life grown-ass adults to help you with an investigation that requires research and effort, looking back at notes and emails and DMs, digging up old photos, arranging soils out and taking new pictures for you, going and comparing contents of buckets in workshops and so on. Your demands have motivated those who know Andy to to go look at personal, private discussions they've had with the guy.
If you want real life grown-ass adults to assist you with a paralegal adventure and your response to "why?" is essentially equivalent to "it's none of your business", then guess what: There are consequences to your social standing as people parse the irony of you asking to reveal the details of someone elses business while telling them they have no business in your business. You may disagree, but the presently-active social contract on this site is that you make the context of your investigation other people's business by asking them to expend effort.
Read the room. @BillsBayou is not ChatGPT, he is a living, breathing, (and apparently) caring human being. This is a small, tight knit scene, MUCH smaller than you think when you exclude the dead-juniper-in-a-dorm numbers. Spend your social capital wisely and be kind. Bonsai is very very small. Assume positive intent, pay it forward, and seek to understand and be well-understood. You don't have to show your work but I feel like the original misguided idea here was that sharing at least some minimal context would get us into a soil war. Instead it got us the same ultimately negative vibes.
I never asked anyone to do “an investigation that requires research and effort, looking back at notes and emails and DMs, digging up old photos, arranging soils out and taking new pictures for you, going and comparing contents of buckets in workshops and so on. Your demands…..”
If you don’t know what it is…you don’t know what it is. (Like me.) I was just hoping someone would. I never demanded anything.
“@BillsBayou is not ChatGPT, he is a living, breathing, (and apparently) caring human being.”
I mean, he definitely helped prove Haydite is different than what we were looking for. But he also knew it was Norlite and waited 10 days to say so lol…the thread could have been over the first day… So I guess it depends on who you ask. Either way, I appreciate the help.
(Side note on this, Buildex provided actual pictures of their Haydite and essentially verified that what Superfly sold doesn’t look like what they sell; which we already determined. Pictures attached, thought I’d share.)
“response to "why?" is essentially equivalent to "it's none of your business"”
What if there was no good reason to why? What if it’s just I like it? What if someone proved Haydite is 20% better in every way, and I still wanted the Norlite?
I think overall the thread was very informative and civil (others agree). Reading from the beginning I tried to figure out why some were upset, but it seems it’s simply because I stated that (what we now know as) Norlite is not Haydite. Which I believe is a factual statement.
Now, is it possible there was a mine owned by Buildex (or previous trademark holder) at one point, that mined the same Esopus shale in NY and sold it under the name Haydite? Sure! Hell, with all the closures, it’s probably fairly likely. But we just have no evidence of that.
There’s also some semantics in play when determining if Northeast Solite is identical to Norlite; even though it comes from different companies. But I think it’s fairly clear the current Haydite is not Esopus shale (although it may contain a small percentage…or none at all).
What was with the name Superdite? Well, it’s probably just marketing gimmicks, as the company name was Superfly. Is it a miracle substrate? Probably not. It’s just a rock.
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BillsBayou
Chumono
Fine. Let's do this, Noob.
You're a seagull poster. You swoop in from nowhere, make a lot of noise, crap on everything, then leave after everyone is stirred up. I tried ignore, but people are still stirred up. The purpose of this post is essentially "SHOO!"
Let me reply to this statement with your own statement:
Please make up your damned mind. What's it all about, @Alfi?
There is a difference between having "no choice" and "accepting" it. The difference is the attitude you've displayed this entire thread. You won't accept using 95% close to Norlite because you'll let everyone know how much you don't want it.
Go make a new BonsaiNut account. Really. Your statement screams "I'M NEW TO BONSAI AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING!" People need to start putting your account on "ignore".
Easy. So easy but you've had your noob nose in the air about Superfly that you completely missed it. The answer to the question is "Engage with the people who are helping you know what you are looking for (because you don't), know what you need (which we don't), and are willing to help (which you refuse). If Solite is 95% of what you need, I wonder if we could have gotten you to 99.99% of what you need (that 00.01% is the name of the company). But you won't answer "Why?" for two simple reasons: A) Your ignorance makes you arrogant, and B) You think someone is going to laugh at you for your reasons. I've seen both of these many times. The people who fall under category "A" have something black and oily on their auras. Don't touch these people. The people who fall into category "B" just need to understand that bonsai is all about peace and learning patience.
I withdraw all my "Why?" questions. You were afraid you would look stupid if you answered the question. Ignorance is not stupidity. Ignorance is not knowing. We're happy to help the ignorant. But you're stupid.
Crap. The answer to that question is the same as the last question. Asking the same question twice is ... what's the word I'm looking for? (don't answer, you won't get it)
Too late. You've alienated everyone who jumped in here to show you the options.
Stop saying things like that. I'm going to pee laughing.
...no, really, stop...
Aww. You forgot "boring" and "The Superfly Wine of the bonsai world".
Da who what?
You stuck to one fact: Norlite or death!
Not bait. No one was trying to trap you. This is not an adversarial conversation. Well, it is now, but it wasn't before.
My rule on conversations: You get out of a conversation what you put into a conversation. Well, here it is.
Adversarial. Black and white. Right and wrong. Us or them.
Want to know who was right and who was wrong? I was wrong. I was very wrong. Your attitude towards me garnered responses from others pointing out your bad attitude. I was wrong to continue to be unbiased and fair. I was willing to help you. You don't have to buy haydite from me. No one does. You don't have to answer "Why?" But you don't have to have an attitude to get answers.
I hope that wasn't me.
I saw the video already. He explained why. He answered the question before anyone asked it. He walked over every detail of his favored pencil in comparison to the newer version. I like Adam's voice and that is the only reason I listened to someone explain one of the most boring subjects in excruciating detail. In the end, everyone knew "why".
I got the video. You did not. What most people here don't get is you. I do. I get you.
I really hope you're not someone known in the bonsai world. People will look at me funny if every time I hear your name I say "{your name} is an ass." It's better for us both if I never find out. Go create a new B'nut ID and come back and get shocked by how nice and helpful we can be if you don't think of us as adversaries. Let us know what you don't know, what you do know, what you've done, what you want to do, and why.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
My apologies to anyone who takes issue with this rant of mine. I don't like to sign my name to negative messages. I believe in positive energy. @Alfi frayed my last nerve and I took the bait.
Editing To Add: Crap. He posted again while I was writing this and I saw it before I could click "ignore" in his profile. Later there may be another breakdown. This was his largest block of twaddle yet.
You're a seagull poster. You swoop in from nowhere, make a lot of noise, crap on everything, then leave after everyone is stirred up. I tried ignore, but people are still stirred up. The purpose of this post is essentially "SHOO!"
Lol what?
Let me reply to this statement with your own statement:
Please make up your damned mind. What's it all about, @Alfi?
There is a difference between having "no choice" and "accepting" it. The difference is the attitude you've displayed this entire thread. You won't accept using 95% close to Norlite because you'll let everyone know how much you don't want it.
Go make a new BonsaiNut account. Really. Your statement screams "I'M NEW TO BONSAI AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING!" People need to start putting your account on "ignore".
Easy. So easy but you've had your noob nose in the air about Superfly that you completely missed it. The answer to the question is "Engage with the people who are helping you know what you are looking for (because you don't), know what you need (which we don't), and are willing to help (which you refuse). If Solite is 95% of what you need, I wonder if we could have gotten you to 99.99% of what you need (that 00.01% is the name of the company). But you won't answer "Why?" for two simple reasons: A) Your ignorance makes you arrogant, and B) You think someone is going to laugh at you for your reasons. I've seen both of these many times. The people who fall under category "A" have something black and oily on their auras. Don't touch these people. The people who fall into category "B" just need to understand that bonsai is all about peace and learning patience.
I withdraw all my "Why?" questions. You were afraid you would look stupid if you answered the question. Ignorance is not stupidity. Ignorance is not knowing. We're happy to help the ignorant. But you're stupid.
Crap. The answer to that question is the same as the last question. Asking the same question twice is ... what's the word I'm looking for? (don't answer, you won't get it)
Too late. You've alienated everyone who jumped in here to show you the options.
Stop saying things like that. I'm going to pee laughing.
...no, really, stop...
Aww. You forgot "boring" and "The Superfly Wine of the bonsai world".
Da who what?
You stuck to one fact: Norlite or death!
Not bait. No one was trying to trap you. This is not an adversarial conversation. Well, it is now, but it wasn't before.
My rule on conversations: You get out of a conversation what you put into a conversation. Well, here it is.
Adversarial. Black and white. Right and wrong. Us or them.
Want to know who was right and who was wrong? I was wrong. I was very wrong. Your attitude towards me garnered responses from others pointing out your bad attitude. I was wrong to continue to be unbiased and fair. I was willing to help you. You don't have to buy haydite from me. No one does. You don't have to answer "Why?" But you don't have to have an attitude to get answers.
I hope that wasn't me.
I saw the video already. He explained why. He answered the question before anyone asked it. He walked over every detail of his favored pencil in comparison to the newer version. I like Adam's voice and that is the only reason I listened to someone explain one of the most boring subjects in excruciating detail. In the end, everyone knew "why".
I got the video. You did not. What most people here don't get is you. I do. I get you.
I really hope you're not someone known in the bonsai world. People will look at me funny if every time I hear your name I say "{your name} is an ass." It's better for us both if I never find out. Go create a new B'nut ID and come back and get shocked by how nice and helpful we can be if you don't think of us as adversaries. Let us know what you don't know, what you do know, what you've done, what you want to do, and why.
My apologies to anyone who takes issue with this rant of mine. I don't like to sign my name to negative messages. I believe in positive energy. @Alfi frayed my last nerve and I took the bait.
Editing To Add: Crap. He posted again while I was writing this and I saw it before I could click "ignore" in his profile. Later there may be another breakdown. This was his largest block of twaddle yet.
Gee, I wonder why. (After the last post, lol.)
After a whole bunch of ad-hominem attacks, you tell new members to leave.
Other than some funny memes, I think there were only two people upset. Now surprisingly three. The other guys I can understand, but I think Billsbayou should have slept on it before hitting send lol.
Still don’t know why I’m getting all this flack but @bonsainut, who said the same thing, three times, gets a pass lol.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
All of these words were used as sarcasm, not a belief that the substrate you are seeking as any of those things.
Sorry but your obsession with this soil component from this exact same mine is ridiculous. First of all rock deposits are typically layered. There is no guarantee that the rock mined at one level will be exactly the same as rock mined at another level in the same mine. To think one batch will be exactly the same as another batch is laughable.
I've used pumice, lava and akadama from various vendors and sources for the last decade. Never saw a difference in performance between any of them. It just works.
That you seem to think that this rock from this specific mine is so special that nothing else can compare is insane, which is why you've gotten the reaction you did.
Personally, I don't give a damn but this thread has been amusing and a new twist on the age old soil wars bonsaists have debated for years.
Anyway, good luck.
Yes, I am well aware they were sarcasm, but I have to point it out because somewhere people got the idea that this is what I said.
You literally did it later in your post.
I never said it was anything special. Just that it's different than Haydite.
From Norlite:
"Extensive drilling as well as regional geologic relationships demonstrate the uniformity of the shale and its extreme thickness, estimated to exceed 3,000 feet. The quarry is assured of a long-term supply of uniform quality raw material to maintain the feed for high quality lightweight aggregate."
So let me slightly rephrase a previously posted question:
95% similar is still >> 10% similar.
The name of the exact shale is still in question. Norlite actually calls it Normanskill Shale; while Northeast Solite calls theirs Esopus Shale. Are they the exact same? I still gotta figure that out.
Yep, never claimed this performed any better. Not once. I also use akadama.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Time to close this discussion. We've beaten this horse long enough...
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