What is wrong with this Siberian??

[Captkingdom]

I thought it was nearly impossible to kill one of these.
I layered and collected this last year and this spring cut it back and removed a twin trunk.
This summer it began loosing leaves starting from the trunk outward. as you can see from the picture the edges of the leaves turn brown first as they are dying.
Can anyone help me diagnose this?
It is growing in Diatomaceous Earth

 

[M. Frary]

It is growing in Diatomaceous Earth

And what else?
How often is it watered?
Is it sitting out in full sun?

 

[GrimLore]

Water, water, less sun...

Grimmy

 

[Captkingdom]

I think I have a little bit of bark mixed in with the DE, but its probably less than 20%.
I water quite often; once a day and sometimes more in the heat but subsequent watering is mostly just a mist while I am misting collected junipers.
It has been in mottled shade under a large cottonwood most of the year but I recently moved it into a little more direct sun thinking that perhaps it wasn't getting enough. That has not seemed to help but it is still not in full sun.
It is entirely possible that I am giving it a lot more water this year than I was last year when it was thriving. It seemed to be thriving this year as well after the chops and pushed out some large growth but come summer has gone brown and lost 60% of its foliage.

 

[Captkingdom]

One other thing, I recently added a general purpose fertilizer that I think was a slow release 14:14:14 but I believe I did that after noticing the damage

 

[M. Frary]

I water the crap out of them. I grow these things in unsigned Napa floor dry in full sun all day long. I fertilize with miracle grow every week sometimes twice for elms at 5 times the amount described on the box. I have yet to lose even a twig.
My sun may not be as intense as Utah but we do have a member from New Mexico that collects these too. I'm not sure but I think he keeps them out in full sun.

 

[Captkingdom]

Thanks, Mike. Mine came from Autozone and generally i seem to be having good luck with it.
Maybe i will move this into more sun, fertalize again, and see what happens

 

[M. Frary]

Thanks, Mike. Mine came from Autozone and generally i seem to be having good luck with it.
Maybe i will move this into more sun, fertalize again, and see what happens

I hope it pulls through. If not I would like to know how it died because like I said,in my experience these are the toughest trees out there.
Good luck.

 

[0soyoung]

I think you, @Captkingdom may have serious root problems; maybe cooked them when the DE went dry. Dying from the bottom up or inside out can be symptomatic of this except with dead roots you have a dead tree in a matter of days or weeks at most.

Have you ever stuck a meat thermometer probe (under $15 at your local grocery or hardware store) into the substrate to see how hot the roots get? Watering will drop the temp and keep the roots cool until it has evaporated into your hot, dry air and then the root temps will soar to and on above the air temperature.

Root growth stops at roughly 95F and are certainly dying once temperature are around 115F and more. I suggest you spend the day tomorrow checking while following your normal weekday watering schedule. If it gets through the day without getting too hot, never mind, this isn't your problem.

Otherwise you'll need to get the pot out of direct sun - cover it with Al foil, sit it in the ground (pot in pot like you may have seen at some nurseries), cover it with a wet, light colored towel, or some such - keep measuring until you've got it figured out.

 

[Captkingdom]

it is in a black pot...

 

[papymandarin]

and it's a layer from last year, those need time to recover and develop their root systen and strenghen it , even if it's an elm it requires more protection and not to lack water, it seems thirsty to me

 

[aml1014]

I'm from new Mexico at about 5300' elevation and I'm amazed by this! I've had Siberians for a few years now being kept in the blasting desert sun. I water the hell out of mine daily but they do have the ability to bounce back easily like nothing happened.
I'll be keeping my eye on this thread to see how yours does.
I did get one this spring from a friend, that was in awful shape and had root rot from sitting to wet all winter long. The tree was suffering and I vaguely remember the leaves doing that same thing, I repotted into napa8822 and it's been happy ever since.

Aaron

 

[Recoil Rob]

I'm a noob and purchase a Siberian at a club show this past year. It had been neglected but I just watered daily, misted and fed it and it seems to be doing well here in NY on the deck getting full light for half the day.

Almost all it's leaves are gone now, I assume that's normal for the fall, I am wondering what I should do for the winter? I can keep it in an unheated sunroom for the winter or bring it fully indoors with full winter light.

Recommendations?

 

[M. Frary]

I'm a noob and purchase a Siberian at a club show this past year. It had been neglected but I just watered daily, misted and fed it and it seems to be doing well here in NY on the deck getting full light for half the day.

Almost all it's leaves are gone now, I assume that's normal for the fall, I am wondering what I should do for the winter? I can keep it in an unheated sunroom for the winter or bring it fully indoors with full winter light.

Recommendations?

Leave the thing outside. On the north side of a building. Mulch up to the bottom branches. You don't have winters too cold to hurt it. It's from Siberia after all.

 

[chansen]

I thought it was nearly impossible to kill one of these.
I layered and collected this last year and this spring cut it back and removed a twin trunk.
This summer it began loosing leaves starting from the trunk outward. as you can see from the picture the edges of the leaves turn brown first as they are dying.
Can anyone help me diagnose this?
It is growing in Diatomaceous Earth
View attachment 116181

Too dry, too hot. In our hot summers I water at least twice, and sometimes 3x a day depending on the tree and the weather. Hot, dry, low humidity and high elevation means rapid evaporation. The tree needed more water and less sun.

 

[aml1014]

The tree needed more water and less sun.

I'll agree with more water, but Siberian elms can handle full sun all day here at 5300'elevation in New Mexico, they should handle the Utah sun just fine.

Aaron

 

[Tieball]

I had an AmericanElm that looked this way once. I snipped off all the dying and dead leaves...it's not they were going to spring back to life and repair themselves. I left alive good leaves anywhere they were located on the tree. I shielding the tree from direct sunlight for about 2-3 weeks (but always kept it outside). I kept it in a bright location but not in direct sun....that also kept my black plastic pot from cooking the roots in the sun. I also misted the leaves and buds on the branches. Early on I wrapped a wet towel around the pot and top of the soil just to keep moisture uniform and stop the cooking from the sun. As I misted the tree the towel also continued to soak up moisture keeping the roots cooler. I don't know if my approach had any scientific or horticulture value.....but.....It worked for my tree.