Thoughts on Today's Bonsai Mirai Tree Sale?

[Cadillactaste]

At the end of the day, if the one buying is happy. Then isn't that the bottom line? Regardless the price tag...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

if they sell at whatever price then he is pricing them accordingly.

Exactly. If I were Ryan, and all my trees sold in 15 minutes, next year I would increase all the prices by 25%

Let's face it, if you are successful enough, even your signature is worth money Take a stick in a pot, and put Picasso's name on it, and it will be worth $$$

 

[rockm]

There are other places in the U.S. selling very expensive, high quality trees, imported from Japan. Some of those have been exhibited in Japan and they're not all conifers. I've seen a few of those trees here in Va. Spectacular trees. If you have the $$, it's your decision..

 

[Woocash]

Of course, its completely up to people whether they want to buy and if it makes them happy, great. Just, some people buy trees, some people are sold them. A big brand putting on a flash sale is a great way to sell trees at inflated prices...

I’d do the same.

 

[Woocash]

failed gif. cant work it out. I give up.

 

[roberthu]

Yup. but also the reverse can happen. I was at a friends place yesterday. All in all, we were three guys there. He had a largish yew sitting in a corner, unstyled, in a pot recovering from a builders site for 6 years now. My friend said he really did not like the yew very much anymore and thought it would make a nice tree. When the other friend and I took out our wallets and asked: How much, he looked shocked.

in the end we spent till midnight working on the yew together helping him see the tree within. Considering the pictures he sent, I do not think he slept much after we left, and continued working the tree.

Sometimes a tree speaks to you, and you value it much higher than the rest of the bunch. And sometimes you just "do not see it"

Exactly. That’s actually why we shop at nurseries. What is normal to most people may mean something entirely different to us. Thus the opportunity to get something meaningful at a regular or even discounted price.

 

[smc]

The hate here is getting excessive...It takes great effort and expense to build a brand/business and there is nothing wrong with capitalizing on it once the brand is built. The comments here imply Ryan should live the poor artist lifestyle. The comments also overlook that these trees really are great pieces of art. If someone has the skill to recreate the work with nursery stock then sure go ahead but most of us lack the skill. It’s the same reason most people buy paintings rather than paint themselves.

Financially - someone saying the trees are a “money-making scheme” probably doesn’t understand finance or business. There are too few trees sold per year that when matched against business expenses and their own personal living expenses I highly doubt they are getting rich off the trees. Mirai Live is almost certainly where the real money is made.

Lastly, I don’t understand the complaints on only conifers. The guy has a specialty. Focusing on your specialty is usually a smart move.

The only complaint that makes sense to me is high pressure shotgun sale - auction probably a better format.

 

[Ruddigger]

So???

Who do you think did most of the work on Kimura’s trees when Ryan was Kimura’s student? Ryan and the other apprentices! Kimura might provide some direction, and some touch-up manipulation when it’s done, but the vast majority is done by the apprentices.

I’m aware of that, I’m also aware that the apprentice model as it exists in Japan is very different than someone that visits Mirai a few times a year to learn.

I’m not saying anything negative about these trees, I just think a lot of people expect they’re getting a Ryan Neil tree, when that may not be entirely true.

 

[Dav4]

There are other places in the U.S. selling very expensive, high quality trees, imported from Japan. Some of those have been exhibited in Japan and they're not all conifers. I've seen a few of those trees here in Va. Spectacular trees. If you have the $$, it's your decision..

This one comes to mind... https://bonsaiimportcompany.com/. I'm not sure how the pandemic has affected imports recently as the cupboards appear a bit bare at the moment, but these guys usually turn over a lot of high end trees here.

 

[rockm]

This one comes to mind... https://bonsaiimportcompany.com/. I'm not sure how the pandemic has affected imports recently as the cupboards appear a bit bare at the moment, but these guys usually turn over a lot of high end trees here.

That one and some other avenues. I've seen almost a dozen trees from those sources in a collection here in Va. in the last couple of years, including a spectacular, mature Ezo spruce. Some people like cars, some like electronics, etc. I have no issues with people spending big bucks on trees if they want. A rising tide raise all boats. That high end market can also create a market for better mid-level, less expensive material. That has been happening over the last 15 years or so. The kind of material that was expensive back in the 90's is cheap now.

 

[Ohmy222]

That one and some other avenues. I've seen almost a dozen trees from those sources in a collection here in Va. in the last couple of years, including a spectacular, mature Ezo spruce. Some people like cars, some like electronics, etc. I have no issues with people spending big bucks on trees if they want. A rising tide raise all boats. That high end market can also create a market for better mid-level, less expensive material. That has been happening over the last 15 years or so. The kind of material that was expensive back in the 90's is cheap now.

I agree on all parts. In fact, if we could get more imports, it could save Japanese bonsai which is supposedly dwingling over there. Also would allow the US to create bench of stock that will become great bonsai and reduce need to import. To build bonsai we don't need more Ryan Neils, we need more Randy Knights, Brent Walstons, Backcountry Bonsai's and Teleperion farms growing and/or collecting the future bonsai. I do hope it doesn't lead to over-collecting though. I don't believe bonsai will ever be 'popular' but I do worry about wanna be Randy Knights ripping up junipers left and right. If the market was hot you know people would be collecting 10 ancient trees and hoping 1 lives. Happened in Japan but luckily the US is massively bigger and has too much material. Either way money will bring out bad apples and increased regulation as well.

 

[leatherback]

The hate here is getting excessive

Where do you see hate?
I think most people here wonder about the prices, which are valid, as the trees sell out fast, and the form choosen, which you just agreed, makes for snap-decisions.
I do not see much in the form of B-Hate?

 

[rockm]

Exactly. That’s actually why we shop at nurseries. What is normal to most people may mean something entirely different to us. Thus the opportunity to get something meaningful at a regular or even discounted price.

Huh...I stopped trying to get anything worthwhile from nurseries a decade ago. I'd shopped them for years to get "bargain" trees. I never found much of anything that worked out into a great tree. I sold off all of that kind of stock a long time ago. It was nice for a while, but in the long run, it mostly wasn't worth the time.

"meaningful" changes definition after you've seen quality stock and finished trees at shows and specialty bonsai nurseries and compare what you're spending money on at a "regular" nursery--even in the bargain bin. Decent stock is not all that much more expensive than an unworked medium sized landscape tree at a regular nursery that you have to spend ten years on just to get a decent leader.

 

[leatherback]

"meaningful" changes definition after you've seen quality stock and finished trees at shows and specialty bonsai nurseries and compare what you're spending money on at a "regular" nursery--even in the bargain bin. Decent stock is not all that much more expensive than an unworked medium sized landscape tree at a regular nursery that you have to spend ten years on just to get a decent leader.

Good point.

I especially agree with the "changing" part. To me, getting decently sized nursery trees (50usd or so) is great for starting out, to get experience growing. Then get good stock (100-200) as yu build confidence & expertise.

 

[LanceMac10]

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-zoeknd7bpc/images/stencil/500x659/products/6149/19366/IMG_3249__29578.1593455734.jpg?c=2

$2100 before tax from a local bonsai nursery...consider this in your calculations.

 

[coh]

was it you?

Nope! Didn't buy any. There were a couple that were tempting. One was a juniper (can't remember if it was western or rocky mountain) that I thought was a reasonable price but I've never grown one of those and would rather start with something less expensive.

 

[Woocash]

The hate here is getting excessive...It takes great effort and expense to build a brand/business and there is nothing wrong with capitalizing on it once the brand is built. The comments here imply Ryan should live the poor artist lifestyle. The comments also overlook that these trees really are great pieces of art. If someone has the skill to recreate the work with nursery stock then sure go ahead but most of us lack the skill. It’s the same reason most people buy paintings rather than paint themselves.

Financially - someone saying the trees are a “money-making scheme” probably doesn’t understand finance or business. There are too few trees sold per year that when matched against business expenses and their own personal living expenses I highly doubt they are getting rich off the trees. Mirai Live is almost certainly where the real money is made.

Lastly, I don’t understand the complaints on only conifers. The guy has a specialty. Focusing on your specialty is usually a smart move.

The only complaint that makes sense to me is high pressure shotgun sale - auction probably a better format.

I’m not sure I get this post. No hate anywhere here that I‘ve seen or implying Ryan Neil shouldn’t be making money. If you got it, flaunt it (or flog it)! Equally, everyone in bonsai would assume the trees aren’t the driving force behind Bonsai Mirai’s finances. I’m sure he’s making well enough without selling a single one. The sudden influx of cash each year can’t hurt though, can it? Especially when you’ve got a willing mob of subscribers with money burning holes in their pockets.

 

[Mayank]

Love the literati RMJ # 5, the western juniper, the RMJ # 8. Don't think the prices are unreasonable. Don't have the budget to get one at this time and I like to get rougher stock that I could (more realistically, my son and I) style and "own" the tree over some years rather than a refined tree. That being said I'd love to own one of Ryan's or Todd Schlafer's or trees shown here by @Walter Pall, @Adair M, @MACH5, @Brian Van Fleet, and many others!

 

[BobbyLane]

i remember watching the styling of the blue rug juni a little while back in the nursery stock series. i was inspired by the work done on it, i saw it again on the site yest before it sold. coming from unassuming nursery material he probably paid what $200-350? and it was sold for what $2,200-2,800? its an excellent piece of work and an even better piece of business.
im guessing he threw the remainder of the tree in the garbage can, it was a mere stick in a pot with a ball of foliage up top!
he even joked in the video, 'who would be stupid enough to buy this stick'? 'me'

it just goes to show what can be done with fairly cheap nursery stock. what 3 years of development? what an investment!!

more people should be doing stuff like this. apologies for posting the long winded video, but i think there's a few who could hugely benefit from these types of resources.

 

[PiñonJ]

Also had that blue rug juniper that was air layered way back off the nursery stock series, that one would have been cool to own...

Almost sounds like owning something that has been on "TV" and thus a must-have item.

I’m not sure he meant it that way, although being able to see the tree’s progression documented on video is very cool. Ryan took a horrible-looking juniper with a weeping crown at the end of a long, ramrod-straight trunk and turned it into a really interesting clump by air layering. Each major step in its development is documented. It was a nursery tree that probably a thousand bonsai enthusiasts would have walked past without seeing any potential.