Thoughts on Today's Bonsai Mirai Tree Sale?

I understand pot (obviously) and styling by mirai adds significant amount.

If he actually styled them. I know at least one of these trees is the work of his student, he recently said so on a live stream, and the people on the mirai forum are saying others are as well.
 
If he actually styled them. I know at least one of these trees is the work of his student, he recently said so on a live stream, and the people on the mirai forum are saying others are as well.
The trees might have belonged to his students. He did work on a lot of those trees. I recognize a few of them that belonged to his students and Ryan used as a teaching subjects during live streams.
 
The link to the store page doesnt work, I guess everything sold?
 
The lack of ability to preview trees or see the ones that have been sold is a little disappointing (for those of us wanting to do window shopping).

I think that if you view these as pieces of art that are created by someone at the top of their field, out of material which is rare, then the prices make sense. I think what's often overlooked too is that there isn't a surplus of styled, quality trees available for sale online. Add in the cost of running a business, the unpaid time in developing the skill/knowledge to create and look after these, and the prices really don't seem out of this world. There is also the fact that having his name attached to them will affect the resale value positively. I'm in two minds about bonsai as collector's pieces but if it helps professionals survive then I think it's probably a good thing.

As pieces of art these are really reasonable - I have a feeling that in a decade or so we'll look back at some of the more expensive pieces here as bargains.
 
If he actually styled them. I know at least one of these trees is the work of his student, he recently said so on a live stream, and the people on the mirai forum are saying others are as well.
So???

Who do you think did most of the work on Kimura’s trees when Ryan was Kimura’s student? Ryan and the other apprentices! Kimura might provide some direction, and some touch-up manipulation when it’s done, but the vast majority is done by the apprentices.
 
So???

Who do you think did most of the work on Kimura’s trees when Ryan was Kimura’s student? Ryan and the other apprentices! Kimura might provide some direction, and some touch-up manipulation when it’s done, but the vast majority is done by the apprentices.
I remember visiting an art gallery in Carmel and talking to the owner about some paintings I saw by a well known artist. Turns out he had members of his studio (assistants or students, can't recall) paint the paintings, then the well known artist would add a few brush strokes and sign it. They sold for big bucks.

I think Ryan's trees are generally reasonably priced. Most of them sold pretty quickly. I bet a bunch of the remaining ones will sell over the next couple of days.
 

Think you probably have to be a mirai member? Not sure about that.

Site cant be reached when I click that link.
Doesnt matter, Id never be able to afford one of his trees anyway.
 
I remember visiting an art gallery in Carmel and talking to the owner about some paintings I saw by a well known artist. Turns out he had members of his studio (assistants or students, can't recall) paint the paintings, then the well known artist would add a few brush strokes and sign it. They sold for big bucks.

I think Ryan's trees are generally reasonably priced. Most of them sold pretty quickly. I bet a bunch of the remaining ones will sell over the next couple of days.

I agree that when taking into account the overhead/expense of running a business and the fact that Bonsai Mirai has sales only 2x per year (which means that the nursery has limited revenue opportunities from selling trees) that the prices are reasonable in that context. People generally under-appreciate the cost of running a business. Mirai needs to cover is expenses and also generate a profit that the owners can live + re-invest in the business.

It does sound like from a commercial / customer relations standpoint that Mirai might be better off with a different sale format, given the complaints about no previews, high-pressure decision making and lack of fairness. Mirai might be better off considering a format such as an auction - which provides more time for customers to consider purchases, feels fairer since all parties have a chance to compete and may also result in higher revenue if there is significant demand for a tree. There is value to a business when customers feel the sale process is fair.

Solely from a business perspective - I greatly admire Mirai Live. Ryan figured out how to create stable, recurring revenue business model which can be scaled at relatively low cost and that also helps many people.
 
I remember visiting an art gallery in Carmel and talking to the owner about some paintings I saw by a well known artist. Turns out he had members of his studio (assistants or students, can't recall) paint the paintings, then the well known artist would add a few brush strokes and sign it. They sold for big bucks.

I think Ryan's trees are generally reasonably priced. Most of them sold pretty quickly. I bet a bunch of the remaining ones will sell over the next couple of days.
The provenance of bonsai trees is problematic. Pots are signed and/or chopped. Trees? Not so much.

I happen to own several trees with a known provenance. I know who I bought them from, and usually, they have told me where or how they acquired them. I have several from long term BIB members who are retired from bonsai keeping and wanted to find good homes for trees they’ve nurtured for several decades. Those trees are priceless!
 
Site cant be reached when I click that link.
Doesnt matter, Id never be able to afford one of his trees anyway.
He had several that were around $350 but those were the ones that went in the "pre-sale".

I agree that when taking into account the overhead/expense of running a business and the fact that Bonsai Mirai has sales only 2x per year (which means that the nursery has limited revenue opportunities from selling trees) that the prices are reasonable in that context. People generally under-appreciate the cost of running a business. Mirai needs to cover is expenses and also generate a profit that the owners can live + re-invest in the business.

It does sound like from a commercial / customer relations standpoint that Mirai might be better off with a different sale format, given the complaints about no previews, high-pressure decision making and lack of fairness. Mirai might be better off considering a format such as an auction - which provides more time for customers to consider purchases, feels fairer since all parties have a chance to compete and may also result in higher revenue if there is significant demand for a tree. There is value to a business when customers feel the sale process is fair.

Solely from a business perspective - I greatly admire Mirai Live. Ryan figured out how to create stable, recurring revenue business model which can be scaled at relatively low cost and that also helps many people.

Agreed. I think a lot of the conversation about this sale was driven by the accidental early sales. That seems to have left a bitter taste for many. Previous sales were the same format with similar types/prices of trees and did not generate anywhere near the same amount of discussion.

It does seem like there are a fair number of people out there who just want a tree that Ryan "touched", and preferably as cheap as possible. One guy was suggesting Ryan should go out and acquire 100 pieces of raw nursery stock, style them all in a week, then sell each for about $300-$350.
 
I’d been saving specifically for this sale. I like a lot of his stuff but I remembered last year by the time I got on the site he had nothing under $1000. Not saying they weren’t worth it, but out of my range. I’m also not a fan of pull-the-tigger-now-or-lose-it sale. There’s artists all over selling trees, and I’d prefer to be able to look at it thoroughly and even talk to who I’m buying from about it before buying next time, rather than a shotgun purchase of something. I used my tree money for kayaks.... I’ll start saving again.....
 
He is obviously pricing trees too low, not too high. People are scooping up anything he puts out there. It is hard for me to comment on the pricing as once something gets over $2000 or so I really struggle understand bonsai pricing. I do think his pots and stands are ridiculously expensive though. He has some nice stuff but $500 and up pots should only be antique ones or very large ones IMO. Also, never understood why his pot photos are 90% blank space with the pot barely visible. I am pretty certain he is trying to establish a full-on high-art community though. He is the Andy Warhol of bonsai which isn't a bad thing. I visited last year and the place is breath taking. Trees, location, landscaping, architecture, and everything. They aren't going to waste time with starter material and probably shouldn't when Telperion is right down the road.
 
Arguing about prices on art work is a waste of time. There was a banana labeled as a piece of art and sold for hundreds of thousands of $ last year. As long as there is one person willing to pay the asked price, it’s worth it to that person.
It’s the same that hat I have a few raw materials that are very valuable to me and I wouldn’t part away for less than a grand. I also know it’s highly unlikely that anyone would pay more than a couple of hundred $ for them. But it doesn’t matter. They worth that much to me.
The beauty of art is it’s subjective. If it’s something that can be calculated or molded, it wouldn’t be called art.
 
It’s the same that hat I have a few raw materials that are very valuable to me and I wouldn’t part away for less than a grand. I also know it’s highly unlikely that anyone would pay more than a couple of hundred $ for them. But it doesn’t matter. They worth that much to me.
Yup. but also the reverse can happen. I was at a friends place yesterday. All in all, we were three guys there. He had a largish yew sitting in a corner, unstyled, in a pot recovering from a builders site for 6 years now. My friend said he really did not like the yew very much anymore and thought it would make a nice tree. When the other friend and I took out our wallets and asked: How much, he looked shocked.

in the end we spent till midnight working on the yew together helping him see the tree within. Considering the pictures he sent, I do not think he slept much after we left, and continued working the tree. :)

Sometimes a tree speaks to you, and you value it much higher than the rest of the bunch. And sometimes you just "do not see it"
 
Unfortunately, people are idiots. It’s a great moneymaking scheme for Ryan being a shotgun sale, no chance to rationalise or really consider the value of the purchase. Just lots of disciples with itchy fingers and stocked accounts ready to splurge, just to splurge. I’d be surprised if, in the cold light of day some people don't get their tree, see it next to another and wonder where the hell their money went. But sure, it turns up in a shiny new pot, perfectly wired with a Mirai sticker on the label and they’ve got something to gloat to others at their club about... 2 or 3 years later and gee whizz. They’ve got all the gear and still no idea...huh. Oh and that perfect purchase, kinda losing it’s sheen now and certainly not worth what was paid any longer...

Call me a cynic, but I woke up grumpy.

I don't blame Ryan Neal because he’s created a brand. THE brand. He’s just capitalising on that brand and more power to him. People just like to belong. It’s the reason why so many people buy Nike trainers for stupid amounts, knowing full well they’re made in sweatshops, or buy new IPhones every release even though there is little improvement to the previous version and theirs is still working perfectly. The product is rarely worth what the badge is. That’s the key to capitalism and which goes back to, people are idiots.
 
People just like to belong. It’s the reason why so many people buy

this is what I was thinking when I read this:

Also had that blue rug juniper that was air layered way back off the nursery stock series, that one would have been cool to own...

Almost sounds like owning something that has been on "TV" and thus a must-have item.

I guess this sums it up well:
Just lots of disciples with itchy fingers and stocked accounts ready to splurge, just to splurge. <...>But sure, it turns up in a shiny new pot, perfectly wired with a Mirai sticker on the label and they’ve got something to gloat to others at their club about.

star-adoration going on.
 
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