The "So?" response to bonsai rules.

I get that bonsai itself is evolving, but it's still a japanese art form, with guidelines that you can follow or not... but when does it stop beign bonsai? the chinese have penjing...

I mean if someone say that they want to start playing soccer with their hands or fight jiujitsu with punches and kicks, i think everybody agrees that it's not soccer or jiujitsu anymore...

Can someone be an cubism painter not painting following cubism style?
 
I came across another great article by Brent at Evergreen Garden Works - this one on "Bonsai Rules" and thought I restart this debate. Curious to understand which rules folks feel need to be broken. Here are Brent's rules:

Trunk and Nebari Rules:

1. Height should be six times the caliper of the trunk.
2. Trunk should lean slightly toward the viewer.

3. Trunk should flare at base to visually anchor the plant.

4. Roots should radiate from the flare.

5. No eye-poking roots (directly at viewer).

6. Apex should lean toward viewer.

7. Trunk should taper as it ascends. No reverse taper.

8. Grafts should match understock and scion so that they are unobtrusive, or be placed low enough to disappear into the nebari.

9. Curves in trunk should not result in 'pigeon breast' (roundness toward viewer).

10. Apex should finish in the direction set by the base. 'Flow' should be maintained.

11. Trunk line should not move 'back on itself'. This is one of my rules and difficult to explain. It relates to the flow of the tree. A trunk line that moves back on itself creates a 'C' curve.

12. For formal and informal upright, the apex should be over the base.

13. In informal uprights, too many 'S' curves will be tiresome.

14. As a tree ascends the curves should be closer together (related to branch placement).

15. A tree should have only one apex.

16. Twin tree trunks should divide at the base, not higher up.



Branches:

1. No crossing branches, or branches that cross the trunk.
2. No eye-poking branches (pointed directly at viewer).

3. First branch should be placed approximately one third the height of the tree.

4. Succeeding branches placed at one third the remaining distance to the top of the tree.

5. Branches go on the outside of the curves (No belly branches).

6. Branch caliper should be in proportion to the trunk. Branches that are thicker than one third the trunk caliper will be too thick.

7. First branch should be left (or right), second branch right (or left), third branch should be back branch.

8. Branches should visually alternate, no parallel branches.

9. Branches should diminish in size and caliper as they ascend.

10. There should be space between the branches to 'Let the birds fly through'.

11. First and second branches (Left and Right branches) should be placed forward of the mid line to 'invite' the viewer.

12. First, second, and third branches are approximate 120 degrees apart, with the back branch not directly behind the tree.

13. Only one branch per trunk position, no 'wheel and spoke' or whorled branches, or bar branches (branches directly opposite each other).

14. Branches should create an outline of a scalene triangle with the apex representing God, the middle corner man and the lower corner earth.

15. Secondary branches should alternate left and right and follow the rules of main branch placement, except there should be no secondary branches moving up or down. This creates the foliage pad.

16. To create the illusion of an old tree, wire the branches down. Young trees have ascending branches. The branches near and in the apex can be horizontal or ascend since this is the young part of the tree.

17. Branches for cascades generally follow the rules for uprights, except that the trunk moves down.

18. In twin trees, there should not be branches between the trees which would cross the trunks. The outside branches of both trees creates the triangle of foliage.

19. A jin should not be hidden in foliage.



Pots:

1. The tree should be placed behind the mid line of the pot, and to the left or right of the center line.
2. The depth of the pot should be the caliper of the trunk, except for cascades.

3. Colored glazed pots should be used for flowering and fruiting trees and the colors should complement the flower color.

4. The width of the pot should two thirds the height of the tree. For very short trees, the width should be two thirds the spread of the tree.

5. Style of the pot should match the tree. Uprights without much movement should be in rectangular pots, informal uprights with a lot of trunk movement should be in oval or round pots. Massive trees should be in deep rectangular pots.



Culture:

1. Soils should be uniform, not layered. (New rule, you will still find controversy).
2. Fertilize full strength. (New rule, there will be controversy).

3. Water from above, not by submerging the bonsai, this will prevent the buildup of salts.

4. Increase humidity by using a tray of pebbles and water or by keeping the area under the bench wet, not by misting. (This is my rule, there will be controversy. Misting increases the salt buildup on the leaves, and does practically nothing to raise humidity.)

5. Remove most of the 'fines' from any soil mix, using only coarse particles.

6. Water when the plants need to be watered, not by a fixed schedule.

7. Keep temperate climate plants outside. Only tropical and subtropical plants (for the most part) are suitable for indoor bonsai. Temperate climate plants must be given an appropriate period of cold dormancy if they are to be kept indoors.
 
I remember 25ish years ago on the old GardenWeb bonsai forum people giving grief to Walter Paul as his trees were nonconforming. His trees in my opinion have always been breath taking, yet they were giving him grief.
He asserted his style was naturalistic and some got it, and others didn't. Still breath taking.

I think the gist is to know the rules before you can successfully break them. Some people do it very, very well.
Myself, and most others need the rules.

Regardless if you enjoy your trees grow them however you want and be happy.
Might not win at a show but as you said... so. Mine following the rules won't either. ;)
 
There are no rules- in bonsai, in life, in art, anything. As soon as it has to be a specific way, someone creates a way to "break" the rule. There are however conventions. These help to standardize common things. If you can understand the convention, you can disgaurd the convention in an appropriate context. I like knowing the conventions and I can choose to follow them or not.
 
I came across another great article by Brent at Evergreen Garden Works - this one on "Bonsai Rules" and thought I restart this debate. Curious to understand which rules folks feel need to be broken. Here are Brent's rules:

Trunk and Nebari Rules:

1. Height should be six times the caliper of the trunk.
2. Trunk should lean slightly toward the viewer.

3. Trunk should flare at base to visually anchor the plant.

4. Roots should radiate from the flare.

5. No eye-poking roots (directly at viewer).

6. Apex should lean toward viewer.

7. Trunk should taper as it ascends. No reverse taper.

8. Grafts should match understock and scion so that they are unobtrusive, or be placed low enough to disappear into the nebari.

9. Curves in trunk should not result in 'pigeon breast' (roundness toward viewer).

10. Apex should finish in the direction set by the base. 'Flow' should be maintained.

11. Trunk line should not move 'back on itself'. This is one of my rules and difficult to explain. It relates to the flow of the tree. A trunk line that moves back on itself creates a 'C' curve.

12. For formal and informal upright, the apex should be over the base.

13. In informal uprights, too many 'S' curves will be tiresome.

14. As a tree ascends the curves should be closer together (related to branch placement).

15. A tree should have only one apex.

16. Twin tree trunks should divide at the base, not higher up.



Branches:

1. No crossing branches, or branches that cross the trunk.
2. No eye-poking branches (pointed directly at viewer).

3. First branch should be placed approximately one third the height of the tree.

4. Succeeding branches placed at one third the remaining distance to the top of the tree.

5. Branches go on the outside of the curves (No belly branches).

6. Branch caliper should be in proportion to the trunk. Branches that are thicker than one third the trunk caliper will be too thick.

7. First branch should be left (or right), second branch right (or left), third branch should be back branch.

8. Branches should visually alternate, no parallel branches.

9. Branches should diminish in size and caliper as they ascend.

10. There should be space between the branches to 'Let the birds fly through'.

11. First and second branches (Left and Right branches) should be placed forward of the mid line to 'invite' the viewer.

12. First, second, and third branches are approximate 120 degrees apart, with the back branch not directly behind the tree.

13. Only one branch per trunk position, no 'wheel and spoke' or whorled branches, or bar branches (branches directly opposite each other).

14. Branches should create an outline of a scalene triangle with the apex representing God, the middle corner man and the lower corner earth.

15. Secondary branches should alternate left and right and follow the rules of main branch placement, except there should be no secondary branches moving up or down. This creates the foliage pad.

16. To create the illusion of an old tree, wire the branches down. Young trees have ascending branches. The branches near and in the apex can be horizontal or ascend since this is the young part of the tree.

17. Branches for cascades generally follow the rules for uprights, except that the trunk moves down.

18. In twin trees, there should not be branches between the trees which would cross the trunks. The outside branches of both trees creates the triangle of foliage.

19. A jin should not be hidden in foliage.



Pots:

1. The tree should be placed behind the mid line of the pot, and to the left or right of the center line.
2. The depth of the pot should be the caliper of the trunk, except for cascades.

3. Colored glazed pots should be used for flowering and fruiting trees and the colors should complement the flower color.

4. The width of the pot should two thirds the height of the tree. For very short trees, the width should be two thirds the spread of the tree.

5. Style of the pot should match the tree. Uprights without much movement should be in rectangular pots, informal uprights with a lot of trunk movement should be in oval or round pots. Massive trees should be in deep rectangular pots.



Culture:

1. Soils should be uniform, not layered. (New rule, you will still find controversy).
2. Fertilize full strength. (New rule, there will be controversy).

3. Water from above, not by submerging the bonsai, this will prevent the buildup of salts.

4. Increase humidity by using a tray of pebbles and water or by keeping the area under the bench wet, not by misting. (This is my rule, there will be controversy. Misting increases the salt buildup on the leaves, and does practically nothing to raise humidity.)

5. Remove most of the 'fines' from any soil mix, using only coarse particles.

6. Water when the plants need to be watered, not by a fixed schedule.

7. Keep temperate climate plants outside. Only tropical and subtropical plants (for the most part) are suitable for indoor bonsai. Temperate climate plants must be given an appropriate period of cold dormancy if they are to be kept indoors.

It's not that any NEED to be broken, but that the trunk, branches, nebari rules describe the perfect (for lack of another term) bonsai and are ideals to aspire to.

I doubt there are many bonsai if any at all that check all those boxes. It is after all a living thing we are dealing with and nature does not necessarily follow rules.
 
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It's not that any NEED to be broken, but that the trunk, branches, nebari rules describe the perfect (for lack of another term) bonsai and are ideals to aspire to.

I doubt there are many bonsai if any at all that check all those boxes. It is after all a living thing we are dealing with and nature does not necessarily follow rules.
That would be a fun experiment. Create a bonsai that follows all of them!
 
47 rules?!! In my view, you no longer are looking at an art. You are describing a craft. There is almost nothing left for the artist's touch. I can't imagine 47 rules for any other genre of art.
 
47 rules?!! In my view, you no longer are looking at an art. You are describing a craft.
And a pretty boring craft at that. Or, settings for a plastic tree factory manufacturing line.

The fist things I try to find in any tree, are characteristics that make the tree unique, and I start from this. So I break some of these rules from the start.

I can understand where all these rules come from, and I follow some of them not because I have to, but because they make sense horticulturally or aesthetically. But I follow the natural flow of the tree more than any rule.
 
And a pretty boring craft at that. Or, settings for a plastic tree factory manufacturing line.

The fist things I try to find in any tree, are characteristics that make the tree unique, and I start from this. So I break some of these rules from the start.

I can understand where all these rules come from, and I follow some of them not because I have to, but because they make sense horticulturally or aesthetically. But I follow the natural flow of the tree more than any rule.
What he said.
 
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And a pretty boring craft at that. Or, settings for a plastic tree factory manufacturing line.

The fist things I try to find in any tree, are characteristics that make the tree unique, and I start from this. So I break some of these rules from the start.

I can understand where all these rules come from, and I follow some of them not because I have to, but because they make sense horticulturally or aesthetically. But I follow the natural flow of the tree more than any rule.
This is pretty self-evident and obvious. I don't know ANY bonsai person who's been at this for a while that doesn't take this approach. You use generally what the tree in front of you has to offer. Trees NEVER come in uniformity. The "rules" (and refer back to my posts #15 and #19) are meant to help you sort through HOW to address what the tree offers you, not put a straight jacket on you and force you to make it "conform" somehow (I have no idea how that would work).
 
I don't see "rules" and "laws" as synonymous. A "rule" to me is something gleaned from experience. If we look at 10,000 random trees, put them into like and dislike groups, and analyze the trees in the two groups, we will be able to come up with "rules" that describe characteristics of each group. The rules are after-the-fact descriptions of what we generally find aesthetically pleasing. I see Brent's rules in this light. They are just observations about why we find a specific tree pleasing. If one finds something else pleasing, then break the rules by all means. Similar to the way we find a person attractive. There are unspoken rules of symmetry etc. You are still free to be attracted to the one with a third arm growing out their forehead. No laws against that (although breeding should maybe be illegal). "Laws", on the other, dictate what we are to find pleasing. Whether you like it or not, you can't break the laws without ramifications.
 
47 rules?!! In my view, you no longer are looking at an art. You are describing a craft. There is almost nothing left for the artist's touch. I can't imagine 47 rules for any other genre of art.

How so? That's literally 47 rules that a master bonsai artist could break. Or a beginner can try to follow to improve their base quality.

We have 8 pages of this and you still don't get it. You realize the word 'rule' can have different meanings? It is not a 'rule' in the sense that the bonsai police will come and arrest you.

If you can pin down a text as an alternative to those 47 'rules' by Brent Walston, that are even more helpful, please provide it.

There is actually also a lot of skill involved in mass-producing decent quality cheap bonsai. As opposed to digging up a several hundred year old piece of yamadori and turning it into an award winner.
In the latter case, you aren't going to burn an excellent piece of yamadori because it breaks a 'rule'. But if you shape hundreds of plants from young plants, you need to have a vision, or some basic principles, that you are going to kinda blindly apply to every single of those plants. And then some are going to turn out better than others.

Different people also like different aspects of bonsai.
 
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Funny.

My boss at the museum once told me, You have to learn the rules, before you can break the rules.

Assumes both grounding and vision are part of the genre.

cheers
DSD sends
 
Exactly that. It's a universal principle in all art, be it music or painting. First you learn the basics, then you learn to paint or compose traditional stuff relaly well. So you develop all the basic techniques and learn to follow all the rules and principles And then when you have mastered that, you do your own wacko creative stuff. Take John Coltrane or Van Gogh as clear examples of this.
 
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