The fastest way to develop deciduous bonsai: Walter Pall's hedge pruning method explained

[Tycoss]

I began in the hobby around three years ago, and have been here for about as long. FYI for newer members here, you can learn a lot from @Smoke, as he does develop quality trees, particularly deciduous trees, from what are essentially stumps. However, if you openly disagree with him, he will always insult you and then appeal to his well documented progressions of world class trees. He will then demand you do the same. I cannot think of an instance where this wasn’t the case. You can also never say or imply that you are his equal or you will get the same response. Just some tips.

 

[Cable]

Amen....cuz mindless cutting with no after attention creates knuckle sandwiches that cant be remedied except for removal...

Have at it.

Sorce

I came across this a while ago and bookmarked it because I thought it was interesting: http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2013/02/refurbishing-japanese-maple-hedge.html

I gave it a try one one of my maples this year because I was curious as to what would happen. Last year and this Spring I carefully trimmed and wired. Then the tree fell off my bench and broke two main branches. *sigh* So, I figure it's a good candidate for this experiment. I'm really interested in the results and will post pics after the leaves fall.

 

[Fabledabel]

I began in the hobby around three years ago, and have been here for about as long. FYI for newer members here, you can learn a lot from @Smoke, as he does develop quality trees, particularly deciduous trees, from what are essentially stumps. However, if you openly disagree with him, he will always insult you and then appeal to his well documented progressions of world class trees. He will then demand you do the same. I cannot think of an instance where this wasn’t the case. You can also never say or imply that you are his equal or you will get the same response. Just some tips.

Thanks for the info about @Smoke . The way he talks I was sure he was a preteen haha. I guess bonsai and peace of mind don't really go hand in hand.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I guess bonsai and peace of mind don't really go hand in hand

Never make the mistake of associating the qualities of the art with the qualities of the person making the art. My experience has been that you will usually be disappointed.

 

[Sekibonsai]

Thanks for the info about @Smoke . The way he talks I was sure he was a preteen haha. I guess bonsai and peace of mind don't really go hand in hand.

Definitely a misdiagnosis. We do have peace of mind. We know what works and what doesn't. And quite often we know why.

Most of us are anything BUT teens and are tired of seeing the same old same old. Everyone wants to be a rock star and get some credit for something that's not theirs as we see here or mediocre work at best... "OOOH loook a NEW technique I made up". Or they poo poo time proven technique yet they have nothing to offer in the way of support- neither botany, artistic principle or at least the anecdotal parade of their own work showing why "their way" has value.

Your alternative is the "gray flight" where us old timers write all this forum bullshit off and let you just keep on making rookie mistakes. Its real and it is actually happening. But there is always a "hack" that will take our place that you oggle over.

Gray Lives Matter.

 

[Fabledabel]

Definitely a misdiagnosis. We do have peace of mind. We know what works and what doesn't. And quite often we know why.

Most of us are anything BUT teens and are tired of seeing the same old same old. Everyone wants to be a rock star and get some credit for something that's not theirs as we see here or mediocre work at best... "OOOH loook a NEW technique I made up". Or they poo poo time proven technique yet they have nothing to offer in the way of support- neither botany, artistic principle or at least the anecdotal parade of their own work showing why "their way" has value.

Your alternative is the "gray flight" where us old timers write all this forum bullshit off and let you just keep on making rookie mistakes. Its real and it is actually happening. But there is always a "hack" that will take our place that you oggle over.

Gray Lives Matter.

My alternative? I think you misunderstand. My alternative is that Smoke share his ideas with even a modicum of class and respect. That's all.

 

[my nellie]

To anyone who spoke about Al's ego : Isn't it an "ego case" that the OP feels he needs to explain Walter Pall's methods besides all the existing information/description Mr. Pall has already put over the internet?

Why does someone here need to explain Walter Pall's technique? Walter Pall is perfectly capable of telling everyone how it's done... ...

He has very well explained his method not only on his personal webpage but also on a lot of websites (IBC and elsewhere)
When I first saw the title of this thread on the list of "New Posts" I knew I don't need to read because there is already a lot of info from Mr. Pall himself.
But seeing that this thread has already 3 pages this is what made me curious to read through.

 

[Fabledabel]

To anyone who spoke about Al's ego : Isn't it an "ego case" that the OP feels he needs to explain Walter Pall's methods besides all the existing information/description Mr. Pall has already put over the internet?

Sure. But one doesnt take away from the other.

 

[Paulpash]

Your best bet is to put him on ignore .

 

[Smoke]

To anyone who spoke about Al's ego : Isn't it an "ego case" that the OP feels he needs to explain Walter Pall's methods besides all the existing information/description Mr. Pall has already put over the internet?
He has very well explained his method not only on his personal webpage but also on a lot of websites (IBC and elsewhere)
When I first saw the title of this thread on the list of "New Posts" I knew I don't need to read because there is already a lot of info from Mr. Pall himself.
But seeing that this thread has already 3 pages this is what made me curious to read through.

You are exactly correct. I read it for the reason that I really wanted someone to explain how they see it work and that I was going to see some really cool trees in the process and maybe learn something.

Instead what I got was a guy that had a hard time telling me what he was trying to say and rough pruned a couple maples that have had no training. That is not what the title of the thread was about because Walter, as said above, has told about it and showed it quite competently over and over again.

That was my beef.

Frankly I would not like it very much if there was someone on the internet using my name and not showing exactly and with documentation how the process works. Someone took off their gloves and slapped Walter right in the face, with a bunch of rookie bullshit, and put Walters name on it. Then when I say something you all pile on me. You should be thanking me for correcting that guy.

Words mean things people and if you let this stuff go with out a fuss pretty soon bonsai will be just like all the other crap going on in the world. People will be asking for tolerance and understanding and giving everyone a trophy.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Might be funny if Walter did a video, explaining this guy’s video explaining Walter’s technique. Maybe in a pink th ... nah.

 

[Smoke]

But seeing that this thread has already 3 pages this is what made me curious to read through.

You, (you don't bitch) and a lot of other people that bitch and moan about my conduct look at it for the same reason. To see who didn't flush the toilet!

The threads that read like the National Enquirer are always the ones that run up the post count. Everyone wants to slow down for the trainwreck. No one reads the serious stuff that someone posts, they just click on it, look quickly and keep clicking till they find something they can sink their teeth into. Like BSG, if everyone agrees, the site will fade away. You gotta have entertainment value here also. It's what pays the bills.

Your welcome
I promise to continue to do my part in keeping this place alive.

You might not like the back and fourth, and somehow by trying to put me in my place it makes you feel better, then go ahead and let me have it. Your probably already on ignore, but occasionally I click on the button just to laugh at what some of you write. I do laugh, some of it is hilarious. I do wonder though...why it's always the same people that feel the need to put me in my place...hmmmm

What keeps me going though is the fact that Trump will be President for four more years and that really makes me feel good. It does make it worth it.

 

[TN_Jim]

Bonsai Empire posted this not long ago this year. For anyone who has had not had the benefit of having seen and heard this specific application and methodology from the living legend and master himself, I hope you can take from it the immense respect I did and do.

There’s hallowed ground, and there’s aggressive public shaming, and there is also a platform for the discussion and dissemination of information here. I don’t think the op’s intent was to misrepresent Mr. Pall, counterfeit Gucci bags for profit, or necessarily deserves to be tard n’ feathered...maybe I’m being naive.
Thanks

 

[Adair M]

The irony of this thread is the OP’s video shows him doing a very poor job of Walter’s “hedging”. The Heron’s video is much better.

I, personally, am not a fan of the hedging technique, but even so, it’s a shame that the technique is so poorly demonstrated. I feel he should apologize for the misrepresentation, and he should provide links to videos where Walter is performing it.

 

[Fabledabel]

What keeps me going though is the fact that Trump will be President for four more years and that really makes me feel good. It does make it worth it.

Lmao what? What website do you think we're on? What does that have to do with bonsai? Are we just sharing things that make us feel good now?

 

[Fabledabel]

The irony of this thread is the OP’s video shows him doing a very poor job of Walter’s “hedging”. The Heron’s video is much better.

I, personally, am not a fan of the hedging technique, but even so, it’s a shame that the technique is so poorly demonstrated. I feel he should apologize for the misrepresentation, and he should provide links to videos where Walter is performing it.

To be fair, Walter did ok the video apparently. OP did his due diligence there for sure.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I finally watched the video. I think it's ok. It didn't show me anything that I'd want to use. Basically what I see are some good collected trunks, and growth with very long internodes. Did I miss something?

I wonder if inconsistency is part of the technique. I've only seen Walter Pall's trees online, and I'm a fan of some of them. Some of them people love, but I don't find so beautiful. I was wondering why that might be. Could it be because some trees were collected in Europe and some were trees imported from Japan? I also like his students' trees, their hornbeam. I tend to like Walter's collected deciduous more than the ones he worked on imported from the land of bonsai.

I also just watched the Bonsai Empire video. I don't agree with a lot of Walter says about Japanese bonsai as I think it's very stereotypical. But that's not the topic of this thread, so I'll leave it at just that.

 

[Saddler]

To be fair, Walter did ok the video apparently. OP did his due diligence there for sure.

Why would you think either of those?

OP's words “I work twice a year with WP, he also saw the video before it was published.” I have absolutely no reason to think WP ok’d the video. Now, unless the OP sat next to WP or WP confirmed that he did indeed watch it, I am going with he just sent Pall the video and assumes he watched it. But that is all conjecture on my part. I do have zero reason currently to believe Walter Pall endorsed this video though.

 

[TN_Jim]

Why would you think either of those?

OP's words “I work twice a year with WP, he also saw the video before it was published.” I have absolutely no reason to think WP ok’d the video. Now, unless the OP sat next to WP or WP confirmed that he did indeed watch it, I am going with he just sent Pall the video and assumes he watched it. But that is all conjecture on my part. I do have zero reason currently to believe Walter Pall endorsed this video though.

@Walter Pall, do you condone the video in the first post of this thread? Thanks for thoughts.

 

[Walter Pall]

@Walter Pall, do you condone the video in the first post of this thread? Thanks for thoughts.

Yes. I have a lot more to say in addition but there are other videos about this.