Substrate, wooden boxes, pond baskets & colanders

[Vance Wood]

Hi Vance. So you know the best way to portray how migraines feel is comparing to a bad hangover.
I've been having them since 1 month after shoving the steering wheel out the windshield with
my back on impact with a tree. Wrap your head around that. Had it been my sternum I woulda
plum leaked out. That was 1986 or 31 yrs ago. I have 2-5/wk typically.
I take Zomig for them in the Triptan family of drugs. Usually, dissolves the ache in an hour
but still leaves you in the same brain fog.

Anyway I'm heading up under the sunroom to check on dormancy breakers.
@Vance Wood , while I have you here...what happens to the roots if you repot and the temp drops
to the 20's for a few nights, maybe not breaking freezing during the day by much?
I can avoid direct Sun and all wind inside my sunroom, but cannot beat the temp
save for 68ºF inside the house. Just curious what happens, and why it's such a deal breaker.

Honestly, I tend to do my repotting so late this is seldom a problem, I even go into the late Spring to get it done. The accepted knowledge is that letting the freshly cut roots freeze is not good. I usually don't accept the the accepted knowledge and that's why in many bonsai circles I am considered a pariah. It is getting to a point that I can't go to a convention and attend a class where the teacher seems to be looking at me like I am trying to set them up once they figure out who I am. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Japonicus]

Honestly, I tend to do my repotting so late this is seldom a problem, I even go into the late Spring to get it done. The accepted knowledge is that letting the freshly cut roots freeze is not good. I usually don't accept the the accepted knowledge and that's why in many bonsai circles I am considered a pariah. It is getting to a point that I can't go to a convention and attend a class where the teacher seems to be looking at me like I am trying to set them up once they figure out who I am. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Hah, I sold all my cigars this past Summer. I did put a black cat with short fuse in a Bel Air cigarette once though.
So not always as seems. chuckles...
So many trees budding out in the landscapes, I may be a sucker and start a few easy to move ones.

 

[Timbo]

Hiya Timbo. No not wind blown soil. I mean stability, root hold, and pot stability. Weight.
About everything that comes from Texas or the Gulf of Mexico comes through Appalachia on its way to New England.
Then too the Jet Stream and we live on top of a hill pretty much. It's not like being on Lake Erie or Lake Michigan
but we get some and my trees are frequently on the top rail of the porch with no Westerlies blocked at all.
Put it this way, my 1.5" chimes get tied up frequently so we can sleep

We have a little wind right now, nothing major. Yeah i use some grit/stone whatever on top sometimes to keep the DE from rolling out when i water, otherwise it can roll out of colanders. As far as wind, could be partly why my colanders dry out fast. I just get a gentle breeze though.

In the summer i have to water everyday in colanders, it just drys out fast. Which is why i use less grit in colanders...beside it being heavy.
Try picking up a hemlock in a 18 inch wooden box with grit on top...i need 2 people. It still has half of the ground soil in it though.

As far as root hold, i find it OK, the top layer can wash away like i said, but it seems to hold together when the roots grow out. The roots either stick to the particles or go through it in my exp. Lots of fine feeder roots.
If the tree has decent roots when i put it in DE i don't really need to tie it down...I still do sometimes just to make sure it doesn't get tipped over by animals. If you fill it in with chopsticks and water it down it seems to hold for me. I use almost 100% DE for my seedlings and the roots can be resistant to come out of the small containers. I have no complaints for DE with my seeds, seedlings and small trees. I get nice fine white roots.
You do have to watch they don't dry out in small containers though, especially inside where it's dryer. I've lost many tropical seedlings either being lazy or not realizing they are dry.
When the soil breaks down, i haven't fully figured it out yet, but it looks like at 2 years i should change some of the trees. It still drains well but at least the 2nd layer gets a little sandy.
IMO, it's the freeze/thaw cycle we get.

I'm going to be repotting several trees that have been in it for a few years this spring...i will see more how much the DE has broken down, but then again, i'm still getting good drainage so i guess it's at least partly working. I'm no expert, these are just my exp with DE/grit/Pine bark.
Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[Dav4]

Fwiw, I've had JBP, yew, and junipers have their soil freeze after significant root work (by accident) and they've grown just fine, and I believe Colin Lewis has said cold hardy trees don't need to be protected from freezing temps post root work. I typically don't do root work on deciduous trees until they've clearly broken dormancy and I'd be very reluctant to let the soil freeze on a growing maple.

 

[Adamantium]

Fwiw, I've had JBP, yew, and junipers have their soil freeze after significant root work (by accident) and they've grown just fine, and I believe Colin Lewis has said cold hardy trees don't need to be protected from freezing temps post root work. I typically don't do root work on deciduous trees until they've clearly broken dormancy and I'd be very reluctant to let the soil freeze on a growing maple.

I got a trident maple in late January that had to be potted up, as it came with just a root ball. I shook off some of the organic soil, and potted it in boon mix. I then set it outside. In late January :X

I did put it in one of those insulated bags you bring cold drinks to the beach in, but I don’t know how much that did. We only got one night below freezing, but it went to almost 25*F...

Think it’s a goner?

 

[Dav4]

I got a trident maple in late January that had to be potted up, as it came with just a root ball. I shook off some of the organic soil, and potted it in boon mix. I then set it outside. In late January :X

I did put it in one of those insulated bags you bring cold drinks to the beach in, but I don’t know how much that did. We only got one night below freezing, but it went to almost 25*F...

Think it’s a goner?

What you describe shouldn't be enough to kill an otherwise healthy trident... unless the tree came from a southern source and wasn't fully hardened off or was about to break dormancy... you'll know in less then a month, I'd say.

 

[Adamantium]

What you describe shouldn't be enough to kill an otherwise healthy trident... unless the tree came from a southern source and wasn't fully hardened off or was about to break dormancy... you'll know in less then a month, I'd say.

It came from Florida :,(

It definitely wasn't about to break dormancy, but hopefully it was dormant long enough. It looks like temps there were dropping into the 30s at night for a bit, so here's hoping.

I'm so anxious. Why won't spring get here, already?!

 

[Vance Wood]

It came from Florida :,(

It definitely wasn't about to break dormancy, but hopefully it was dormant long enough. It looks like temps there were dropping into the 30s at night for a bit, so here's hoping.

I'm so anxious. Why won't spring get here, already?!

Boy it's only February~!!@! Some of you guys are so spoiled. I am concerned that the forecasted weather for the next few weeks will cause stuff to wake up too early and then the inevitable cold weather in March is going to kill everything along with the threat of cold weather in April and the history of snow in May. Complain tomorrow when it's March.

 

[substratum]

Boy it's only February~!!@! Some of you guys are so spoiled. I am concerned that the forecasted weather for the next few weeks will cause stuff to wake up too early and then the inevitable cold weather in March is going to kill everything along with the threat of cold weather in April and the history of snow in May. Complain tomorrow when it's March.

Our weather in N.FL is really whacky this year. We had a week where the temp didn't rise above freezing, and snow, just a month ago, and now the early azaleas are already dropping blooms. The rest of the azaleas are in bud, just a week or two from exploding. Still have some camellias in bloom, too. Highs in the low 80s, and when a "cold front" rolls by, we get rain and highs in the low 70s, LOL! Last night I rolled trash cans to the street, and was mobbed by mosquitos.

 

[Adamantium]

Boy it's only February~!!@! Some of you guys are so spoiled. I am concerned that the forecasted weather for the next few weeks will cause stuff to wake up too early and then the inevitable cold weather in March is going to kill everything along with the threat of cold weather in April and the history of snow in May. Complain tomorrow when it's March.

Okay. Expect me.

My larch are already waking up! Thank goodness they’re so cold hardy.

Edit: Yahoo! I’m no longer a seedling!

 

[Japonicus]

Fwiw, I've had JBP, yew, and junipers have their soil freeze after significant root work (by accident) and they've grown just fine, and I believe Colin Lewis has said cold hardy trees don't need to be protected from freezing temps post root work. I typically don't do root work on deciduous trees until they've clearly broken dormancy and I'd be very reluctant to let the soil freeze on a growing maple.

Awesome! Good to know and thank you for sharing that Dav4 .
Got busy working on a grow box yesterday instead of potting anything up.
Vance is right, we know what happens in the transitional months.
Here's my thinking on it though...should I vacation for 2 weeks in May......it would be nice
to have roots growing already, rather than risk drying out a newly potted bonsai or water logging it
for that matter by the "baby sitter". Too many things can happen in that amount of time.

 

[Timbo]

Boy it's only February~!!@! Some of you guys are so spoiled. I am concerned that the forecasted weather for the next few weeks will cause stuff to wake up too early and then the inevitable cold weather in March is going to kill everything along with the threat of cold weather in April and the history of snow in May. Complain tomorrow when it's March.

Some of my buds are starting to turn green already.
It's easy to say you need no protection when you live in zone 7 or higher. I dunno know if it would kill trees here or not, but obv much colder temps up here.
That said, given the forecast i wouldn't think it would. Low of 20 for the next 10 days.

 

[M. Frary]

My trees are still frozen.
Or were yesterday.

 

[Vance Wood]

My trees are still frozen.
Or were yesterday.

The frozen chosen strike again.

 

[M. Frary]

The frozen chosen strike again.

For a few days anyway.

 

[Wilson]

My trees are still frozen.
Or were yesterday.

Even after a string of plus temperatures, trees remain in the shade encased with ice.

 

[Japonicus]

My trees are still frozen.
Or were yesterday.

I think Carly Simon hit that nail on the head with Anticipation.

I have a video/slide show on youtube of when we visited Pictured Rocks up there 2014
on Superior near Whitefish Bay

The root bridge feeding the lone pine at 3:55 is worth a look.
There are some cool videos of Pictured Rocks in Winter where people take their snowmobiles
along the frozen Superior, and go in caves behind the ice shooting video out over the frozen lake.
If your weather is anywhere near what the UP has, your growing season is substantially shorter than mine.
Mackinac Is. is a romantic getaway. The cemetery up there is pretty amazing too.
Didn't know till our last visit there, that the 1st shot of the 1812 war was fired from there, and took 2 weeks
to get word back to the mainland that we were at war. Good ole US mail Pony Express I think it was.

 

[M. Frary]

I think Carly Simon hit that nail on the head with Anticipation.

I have a video/slide show on youtube of when we visited Pictured Rocks up there 2014
on Superior near Whitefish Bay

The root bridge feeding the lone pine at 3:55 is worth a look.
There are some cool videos of Pictured Rocks in Winter where people take their snowmobiles
along the frozen Superior, and go in caves behind the ice shooting video out over the frozen lake.
If your weather is anywhere near what the UP has, your growing season is substantially shorter than mine.
Mackinac Is. is a romantic getaway. The cemetery up there is pretty amazing too.
Didn't know till our last visit there, that the 1st shot of the 1812 war was fired from there, and took 2 weeks
to get word back to the mainland that we were at war. Good ole US mail Pony Express I think it was.

I've hiked the foot trail that runs along the top of pictured rocks.

 

[Japonicus]

I've hiked the foot trail that runs along the top of pictured rocks.

That would be cool. Especially if the Div of Forestry honored collection requests along the rocks.

 

[Japonicus]

@M. Frary We gassed out and took the boat tour with my Mother and step Dad.
If we ever get back there we'll have to do that...
I had hoped to reply back here with pics of my newly repotted cascade but ordered a pot instead.
@sorce made one that'd been a perfect fit, but had already ordered one.
I'd like to make my own custom pots, like what I'd need for several years out.
That would be a connecting ground to the tree. Nice to be able to do that Sorce.