Struggling Junipers

[HENDO]

It's in a very sandy mix that I feel like from the beginning was not great. It doesn't drain nearly as well as the other mix the unstyled juniper is in (which is 1:1:1 akadama, pumice, and lava). Definitely tough actually getting a finger down in it to figure out how wet or dry it is. I had posted awhile back asking for some advice on him and was recommended to wait to repot due to the stress the tree had be going through.

This soil could definitely be one of the main root causes for this tree. It looks pretty rough so perhaps all you can do at this point is monitor soil closely and watch for new buds to appear. Hold off on fertilizer. If buds don't start to appear throw the tree in the firewood pile and find something nice locally, in-person, to enjoy instead.

 

[Japonicus]

I should probably state this tree was purchased styled like this online.

Ok. It can get confusing with multiple subjects within a thread unless
and I do it too, you actually post them separate and caption underneath
each one. As soon as I read this online purchase I knew it was an eBay sale or FB purchase.

...so, this ^ was wired by someone who knows nothing about wiring bonsai.
I took several looks to notice the actual 1st left branch was where it is.
That's only one of the issues, but I'm not here to bash anything, but to help give
better direction.

I'm not even entirely sure what you're saying don't do in this pic as this is just what is left.

Sure, no problem better to ask than assume.
Precisely what I was getting at..."just what is left."
The arrows above are pointing to areas where good foliage was removed.
Well I assume it was good, but certainly better locations to leave foliage than what was left.
Nothing wrong with leaving what was left, but when you work on other trees this weekend
don't do this, removing interior growth. You want each branch to have foliage like what the
seller left in the apex! Yeh. The lower branches are typically going to be the weakest with the apex
being most dominant, yet it was hacked in the opposite way of thinking, only worse, like X10.
Do this to multiple branches, multiple branches shed in favour of branches with higher possibility
of survival, until it reaches a breaking point of, "I can't do this anymore, my apex is not enough to support me".
Hopefully that makes better sense than just saying don't do this with an example

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Everyone has an opinion, so I'll share mine.

Underwatering is one of the most (if not THE most) common causes of killing bonsai. If you water a tree too much, it might slowly decline. But if you let a tree dry out, it will die in a day.

I think junipers love the sun, and they love water. Sure, they can tolerate dry conditions, but as long as the roots don't SIT in water, they can be watered twice per day - or more. A lot of people confuse root problems and soil problems. You have to make sure you are treating the cause of the problem - and not the symptoms. When I look at your juniper, I see a tree that hasn't been properly repotted in a long time... if ever. Those roots have not been properly combed out, and I see a rootball that is a tangle of black dead roots surrounded by a ring of bonsai soil. It is really easy to underwater a tree that is in this condition. You pour water in the top, it runs around the rootball without soaking in, and out the bottom of the pot.

Spider mites are another condition that is a symptom, and not a cause. As others have pointed out, spider mites thrive in dry conditions and on weak trees. Put your tree outside in the full sun, spray it with a hose three times per day and voila! no spider mites.

So you have junipers that have weak roots, need a repot, and are not getting enough water. As it struggles to survive, it will start to drop the weaker parts of the foliage because it simply isn't getting enough water. This will reduce the water demand of the tree... but it will also reduce the amount of energy the tree obtains via photosynthesis, and its ability to grow new roots. It starts a downward spiral of weakening, which in the case of junipers, can be quick to occur but slow to visually manifest.

It's probably too late in the year to repot (in Texas), but I would definitely put this tree in full sun and water it twice a day - and mist the foliage as often as you walk past the tree until you see new growth. I've got junipers in pond baskets that I water four times per day. It's not like their roots are going to get too wet... they are all in 100% pumice in a pond basket - nowhere for water to sit.

 

[Apex37]

Ok. It can get confusing with multiple subjects within a thread unless
and I do it too, you actually post them separate and caption underneath
each one. As soon as I read this online purchase I knew it was an eBay sale or FB purchase.
View attachment 371873
...so, this ^ was wired by someone who knows nothing about wiring bonsai.
I took several looks to notice the actual 1st left branch was where it is.
That's only one of the issues, but I'm not here to bash anything, but to help give
better direction.
View attachment 371875

Sure, no problem better to ask than assume.
Precisely what I was getting at..."just what is left."
The arrows above are pointing to areas where good foliage was removed.
Well I assume it was good, but certainly better locations to leave foliage than what was left.
Nothing wrong with leaving what was left, but when you work on other trees this weekend
don't do this, removing interior growth. You want each branch to have foliage like what the
seller left in the apex! Yeh. The lower branches are typically going to be the weakest with the apex
being most dominant, yet it was hacked in the opposite way of thinking, only worse, like X10.
Do this to multiple branches, multiple branches shed in favour of branches with higher possibility
of survival, until it reaches a breaking point of, "I can't do this anymore, my apex is not enough to support me".
Hopefully that makes better sense than just saying don't do this with an example

I appreciate you're feedback and educating me on all that. Definitely helps me on future trims and upkeep of him and all! As of now he'll be getting a lot of sun for the next week so we will see what happens.

 

[Apex37]

Everyone has an opinion, so I'll share mine.

Underwatering is one of the most (if not THE most) common causes of killing bonsai. If you water a tree too much, it might slowly decline. But if you let a tree dry out, it will die in a day.

I think junipers love the sun, and they love water. Sure, they can tolerate dry conditions, but as long as the roots don't SIT in water, they can be watered twice per day - or more. A lot of people confuse root problems and soil problems. You have to make sure you are treating the cause of the problem - and not the symptoms. When I look at your juniper, I see a tree that hasn't been properly repotted in a long time... if ever. Those roots have not been properly combed out, and I see a rootball that is a tangle of black dead roots surrounded by a ring of bonsai soil. It is really easy to underwater a tree that is in this condition. You pour water in the top, it runs around the rootball without soaking in, and out the bottom of the pot.

Spider mites are another condition that is a symptom, and not a cause. As others have pointed out, spider mites thrive in dry conditions and on weak trees. Put your tree outside in the full sun, spray it with a hose three times per day and voila! no spider mites.

So you have junipers that have weak roots, need a repot, and are not getting enough water. As it struggles to survive, it will start to drop the weaker parts of the foliage because it simply isn't getting enough water. This will reduce the water demand of the tree... but it will also reduce the amount of energy the tree obtains via photosynthesis, and its ability to grow new roots. It starts a downward spiral of weakening, which in the case of junipers, can be quick to occur but slow to visually manifest.

It's probably too late in the year to repot (in Texas), but I would definitely put this tree in full sun and water it twice a day - and mist the foliage as often as you walk past the tree until you see new growth. I've got junipers in pond baskets that I water four times per day. It's not like their roots are going to get too wet... they are all in 100% pumice in a pond basket - nowhere for water to sit.

I can completely understand the comment on the root ball and it being exposed. I had questioned repotting him when I got him back early March, but was advised against it; I should have listened to my gut I'm thinking. This next week is lots of sun, which is good after all the rain we've been getting. I'll be on top of watering him and making sure he gets plenty of sun. I very very much appreciate your thorough and detailed response. It's because of forums like these I'm able to learn and grown with bonsai and just starting up.

 

[Apex37]

Thought I would update this thread and get some advice.

Tree has been recovering since last post on here. I've been really on top of watering and it's pushed quite a bit of new growth since then thankfully. I was worried this one was a goner, but looks like it will hopefully push through.

My issue is I'm really concerned about this root ball. Whatever mix this was planted in is so sandy that the soil level has dropped about .5" and even more of the root ball is exposed. I'm not sure if I should maybe use moss on top or back fill, but was worried about back filling it. I've been noticing some tips starting to brown and I'm thinking it's due to the root issue.

Any recommendations?

 

[leatherback]

Backfill the pot to normal level. Just add substrate on top. Use gritty substrate, not potting soil.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

A good loupe with a light helps tremendously in identifying small insects. Just be careful inhaling when getting close to see them, don’t ask how I know

 

[Apex37]

Backfill the pot to normal level. Just add substrate on top. Use gritty substrate, not potting soil.

Thanks, I went ahead and went this route with a mix of akadama, pumice, and lava.

 

[sorce]

I'm in camp "too little water".

Besides the other "they were almost dead" factors.

I got junipers in big DE, small DE, Nursery soils, some other crap, all fully soaked all the time no decline.

When I used to believe that, "let them dry out" shit, they all would die.

Put the "H" in H2O.

Or make it HtooO.

Imagine the point in time directly after you water it, and wonder why it would die in that state.
You can't find the answer to the wonder because it won't happen.

Sorce

 

[Apex37]

Things looked good and now struggling again. A lot of the tips are beginning to brown. I did the white paper test and it was inconclusive. About all I could find was one brownish small bug.

Any thoughts?

This is really the only tree I have that is really struggling, minus a couple maples that I moved up a couple weeks ago to help alleviate from leaf burn. Questioning whether junipers are for me, but I know it's probably something I'm just doing wrong. Lol

 

[Apex37]

Thought I would update on the tree:

Well he survived the winter! Man, this tree has been struggling and unfortunately I got him right at the end of repotting season last year and was unable to do much to help him until now.




So the repot definitely told me a lot. I've never seen such a mess of soil thrown into such a small pot. It was literally a layer of decent soil (akadama, pumice, lava) on top, followed just a muddy mix of sand underneath followed by what looked to be compost/mulch. I knew this tree was in a shitty mix, but I had no idea how bad.



I disturbed very little of the roots, mostly just removing what I knew was dead and clearing out some of the muddy paste. No wonder the roots are so small, got three different mixes in a 7" pot.


Repotted into a 8"x4" Tokoname terracotta grow pot in a 1:1:1 mix of lava, akadama, and pumice. I won't be touching foliage at all this year in hopes he bounces back with good growth. I'll probably end up trimming off the bottom right branch and creating a jin out of the bottom left branch, but I'm not worried about that right now. Going to let roots recover for a couple weeks then heavily fertilize.

 

[leatherback]

Good move. And indeed. Now let it do its thing. You can help in recovery by misting the foliage and keeping it in dappled shade untill you see enthusiastic growth

 

[BeepBeepBonsaiSheep]

Wow, poor thing. Who even thought that mix was a good idea?

Good it’s in some good soil now. You’ll have to update come winter to show us all the growth!

 

[Apex37]

Wow, poor thing. Who even thought that mix was a good idea?

Good it’s in some good soil now. You’ll have to update come winter to show us all the growth!

Most definitely will! I think it has potential if I can get him healthy again.

 

[Coach_]

How is this tree doing now?

 

[Apex37]

How is this tree doing now?

Worlds better. Here’s my actual thread for the tree.

Blue Rug Juniper #1

This tree has been on a ride. You can check back at this thread when I originally received it and the struggles I had with it: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/struggling-junipers.49569/page-3#post-857346 Over the past couple years I focused entirely on keeping the tree healthy. It’s over...

www.bonsainut.com

I need to do some end of spring pruning here soon.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Whoever did this to that tree and to you should not touch trees or tools, ever.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Worlds better. Here’s my actual thread for the tree.

Blue Rug Juniper #1

This tree has been on a ride. You can check back at this thread when I originally received it and the struggles I had with it: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/struggling-junipers.49569/page-3#post-857346 Over the past couple years I focused entirely on keeping the tree healthy. It’s over...

www.bonsainut.com

I need to do some end of spring pruning here soon.

Good call, end of Spring (maybe only crotches/inside bifurcations and elbows of branches). Grow more and more and light prune once again end of summer. ️

 

[Baku1875]

Whoever did this to that tree and to you should not touch trees or tools, ever.

often it's the nonchalant hobbyist who just assumes all soils 'work' and you can just lump them together in different layers etc. All species of tree have cutoff points for how much sun is too little, how much water retention in the soil is too little, how much they tolerate loss of percolation or irregular mixes of soil, etc.

Great work in diagnosing and getting the tree back to health, the foliage looks nice and blue again.

In my zone, junipers tend to get a really robust growth burst between September and November, might also be true for texas. So if the tree builds all of the right momentum (nice strong runners and adult growth) it could really accelerate more than you think in terms of positive health.