Strategic approach to bonsai development

[dbonsaiw]

Excellent idea for a thread.

It took me 3 years of total immersion with one species to finally look at a tree, find my vision for a finished tree, have a solid plan on how to do your 1,2,3,4, and 5, and last but not least know how to pivot if the tree tells me it doesn’t like my plan.

This. Of the many dozens of trees I’ve acquired and worked with, only a handful are moving in a direction to my liking. Hard way to learn, but I try to view these initial years as a learning experience (and also to just enjoy the process of being with the trees). I’ve made the same mistakes so many times. For me, this time was needed to learn things hands on and then try to re-review the advice on bnut and go back to the “beginner” videos to see if I’m really doing things correctly.

Compared to the number of trunks built node by node there’s a big discrepancy.

I would like to adopt more of a cut and grow approach in development. It took me many years, but I find that trunk chops on larger nursery stock and blindly growing trunks for girth is not giving me what I want.

 

[Gabler]

It took me 3 years of total immersion with one species to finally look at a tree, find my vision for a finished tree, have a solid plan on how to do your 1,2,3,4, and 5, and last but not least know how to pivot if the tree tells me it doesn’t like my plan.

I sure hope I learn other species faster.

There's definitely wisdom in your approach. I have an impulse to collect 'em all like Pokemon, but I'm trying to focus my efforts on a small handful of species, and that's definitely helping me to keep track of all the information available for each species.

Do you know what your next species of interest will be?

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

It is often the best case to keep one part of the tree as "refined" while letting another part of the tree grow free with sacrifice growth. Once again, you can graft on branches if necessary, but many times it is not.

This is one of the more advanced aspects of bonsai and is exciting for me. But skipping ahead to this step puts me so far ahead of what I'm ready for that I would end up (or my tree) three steps back. Aside from finding the right soil balance for my climate and ability to water, tempering my patience is the hardest part of bonsai for me. I know I can learn every step. But I also know I can't learn every step at once.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Strategically, you should ALWAYS approach a tree's development in a priority order that starts with:
(1) Nebari/trunk base
(2) Trunk line/taper
(3) Primary branching
(4) Secondary branching
(5) Ramification/refinement

A couple thoughts - possible food for future comments…..

…Does the thought, “Sometimes going backwards is helping the tree go forward.” fit into this rubric?

… Considering the above rubric, when in general would one place the hypothetical tree in:
- bonsai media?
- in a “bonsai” pot?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Wood]

I don't see why "Sometimes going backwards is helping the tree go forward” wouldn't fit into this. It sounds like a different way of saying "Eliminate flaws in this order of priority".

If you have a branch with poor ramification, movement or taper, cut back to just before the issue and continue work from there

 

[JudyB]

I don't know if you'll ever get the concept of delayed gratification to a complete newbie. I think that some things only experience and coming to terms with needing educated can teach you with this sport.
Learning to look at the tree 3 years down the road instead of what it looks like today is where the stepping off point is. (at least is was for me)

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I don't see why "Sometimes going backwards is helping the tree go forward” wouldn't fit into this. It sounds like a different way of saying "Eliminate flaws in this order of priority".

If you have a branch with poor ramification, movement or taper, cut back to just before the issue and continue work from there

When I started this thread, it was because I had recently seen a number of trees with base flaws or trunk flaws that needed to be addressed... and people were worried about branch refinement. This is particularly noticeable with trees that are literati or multi-trunk, where the trunk becomes even more of a focus than normal. It is not uncommon for trees to spend years in a half-life of "I know this is an issue, but I am too scared to do the severe work needed to fix it"... and then at some point the owner decides they will never do the work... and they sell the tree. Then someone who is less emotionally invested in the tree gets it into their nursery and does the work, and in two or three years the tree is already 10x better than it had been for all the years before.

All sorts of sayings come to mind. "Can't see the forest because of all of the trees" is one. "Can't see the bonsai because of all of the refined branches" is my take on it It is the primary reason why deciduous trees are often shown in the winter... so that people can see the beautiful trunks. Learn to look at your trees from the most important features down to the least important. And if an important feature needs work - make it your primary development focus.

 

[Cajunrider]

When I started this thread, it was because I had recently seen a number of trees with base flaws or trunk flaws that needed to be addressed... and people were worried about branch refinement. This is particularly noticeable with trees that are literati or multi-trunk, where the trunk becomes even more of a focus than normal. It is not uncommon for trees to spend years in a half-life of "I know this is an issue, but I am too scared to do the severe work needed to fix it"... and then at some point the owner decides they will never do the work... and they sell the tree. Then someone who is less emotionally invested in the tree gets it into their nursery and does the work, and in two or three years the tree is already 10x better than it had been for all the years before.

All sorts of sayings come to mind. "Can't see the forest because of all of the trees" is one. "Can't see the bonsai because of all of the refined branches" is my take on it It is the primary reason why deciduous trees are often shown in the winter... so that people can see the beautiful trunks. Learn to look at your trees from the most important features down to the least important. And if an important feature needs work - make it your primary development focus.

1. The structural fault that I fail to address early never fails to bother me more and more as time goes by.
2. The time necessary to fix that structural fault compounds as the bonsai advances in development.

 

[shohin_branches]

Strategically, you should ALWAYS approach a tree's development in a priority order that starts with:
(1) Nebari/trunk base
(2) Trunk line/taper
(3) Primary branching
(4) Secondary branching
(5) Ramification/refinement

I find this one of the most difficult aspects to teach to beginners. They tend to focus on the whole tree or struggle with understanding how the tree will respond to hard pruning.

Sometimes the best path forward is to go a step backwards on your development because it's the only way to set your tree up for future success.

This is a good reminder that the branch you've been "putting up with" on that almost nice tree will not magically get better.

 

[shohin_branches]

1. The structural fault that I fail to address early never fails to bother me more and more as time goes by.
2. The time necessary to fix that structural fault compounds as the bonsai advances in development.

Bonsai sunk cost fallacy
Or maybe more of a status quo bias?

BRB I have some large aggravating branches to chop off

 

[nuttiest]

Then someone who is less emotionally invested in the tree gets it into their nursery and does the work

And so it goes. They will go through the stages in their own way, there is not a solution to be defined.

 

[Wood]

It is not uncommon for trees to spend years in a half-life of "I know this is an issue, but I am too scared to do the severe work needed to fix it"... and then at some point the owner decides they will never do the work... and they sell the tree

At some level, this is just part of the human condition. It's similar to why people stay in a a bad relationship longer than they should. Breaking up means a loss of companionship and intimacy, even if you're also getting rid of drama, fighting, abuse, or whatnot. You'll be better off for it in the long run, but that first part genuinely sucks

 

[Wood]

I just remembered reading this article by @justBonsai. It has a lot of the same ideas in this discussion: https://justbonsai.com/a-discussion-on-deciduous-bonsai-why-did-i-cut-off-all-the-branches/

 

[jeef16]

I like this thread! another big thing I've noticed when getting into bonsai (especially as online resources were blowing up during covid) is that 90% of the content out there is for developing semi-mature or mature specimens. Very little on prebonsai development, although that has been changing a lot in the past few years as well. Like what @shohin_branches said, there's a lot of info out there that pushes you towards having a holistic view of prebonsai development vs achieving the best you can in each one of those steps. Of course there are always exceptions, like whenever you see those very small shohin JM's for example. You kind of need to work steps 1-4 in very quick succession, which in turn is pretty much a holistic view of the tree. If you're experienced or a quick learner, it's still no issue.

I think people are learning more quality prebonsai techniques from youtube in the past years from channels like Jelle, and articles from Jonas on bonsai tonight. But there are also just as many people watching videos of peter chan wiring comically leggy JBP's with boring trunks, as if wiring branches can undo years of zero de-candling. I also think there are techniques that should be spoken about much more than they currently are, like ebihara style of creating nebari. If you want that super strong radial nebari or even the pancake, nothing comes close to planting on a board and using nails to position roots in regards of how fast and how effective it is. Especially if we're rating nebari importance as the highest on the development checklist.

@Wood I personally think its about 'wanting a bigger bonsai' more than sunk cost fallacy. people dont wanna make their 'big' bonsai smaller, but usually that improves the tree because their specimen's trunk wasn't big or good enough to support a quality, large bonsai

 

[bonsaiwood]

For beginners there is no better substitute to learning bonsai than in-person/hands-on learning with experienced practitioners who understand the rules. Youtube channels and online forums may supplement one’s learning (if the information is credible) but at least in my experience, hands-on work tends to move the learning needle much further.

 

[TomP]

Bonsai sunk cost fallacy
Or maybe more of a status quo bias?

BRB I have some large aggravating branches to chop off

The sunk cost fallacy has been the cause of many of my more spectacular failures. I like to think I am getting better, but I looked at my bench a few hours ago and am not so sure that is true

 

[Faisal Ahmad]

Strategically, you should ALWAYS approach a tree's development in a priority order that starts with:
(1) Nebari/trunk base
(2) Trunk line/taper
(3) Primary branching
(4) Secondary branching
(5) Ramification/refinement

Nice sharing, and I very agree with you

In my case, I didn't dare to take step (2) until step (1) was good enough

I did follow this step in my progression thread, Shito Water Jasmine Progress. I built this bonsai tree from scratch

it took me 2 years to develop (1) nebari, and now I'm starting to build the Trunk line (2)


From this to this

 

[shohin_branches]

For beginners there is no better substitute to learning bonsai than in-person/hands-on learning with experienced practitioners who understand the rules. Youtube channels and online forums may supplement one’s learning (if the information is credible) but at least in my experience, hands-on work tends to move the learning needle much further.

I highly agree. I get way more out of volunteering to maintain high quality trees at our local collection and having the curator give me feedback than watching videos online. There is understanding the concept being lectured to you and then there is the learning that happens when you execute a skill.

Even just being in a bonsai gang and sitting around torturing trees with your friends can teach you a lot. Too many people treat bonsai as a solitary hobby.

 

[shohin_branches]

The sunk cost fallacy has been the cause of many of my more spectacular failures. I like to think I am getting better, but I looked at my bench a few hours ago and am not so sure that is true

Sometimes you need to contemplate a change while drinking your coffee every morning for a few months (years). Sometimes you need to assess with a fresh set of eyes or look at a photo of your tree and ask what advice you'd give yourself right now. Sometimes you need a few beers and some old friends to badger you into it.

We all have our process

 

[Gabler]

I highly agree. I get way more out of volunteering to maintain high quality trees at our local collection and having the curator give me feedback than watching videos online. There is understanding the concept being lectured to you and then there is the learning that happens when you execute a skill.

Even just being in a bonsai gang and sitting around torturing trees with your friends can teach you a lot. Too many people treat bonsai as a solitary hobby.

It's great when bonsai is a team sport, but there's so few of us around, it's a luxury to hang out with friends while you're doing it. Even where there's thriving clubs, they generally only meet once per month, and that makes it a little harder to make friends while you're there.