Soulution for Styling Apex

[A Random User]

K... So when we going to get back to the Thread Subject No offense intended - just seeing this take a wrong turn where it does not need to. It's getting to the edge of how can you get lost in the woods when there(presumably) is only one Yellow Brick Road. Everyone here is an Artist and everyone has a different concept and road... It is all good

Grimmy

I don't know, perhaps this question should be asked of the others.
I am just disgusted by the fact that I obviously cannot have an opinion
Without being proved wrong. I have not tried to do this or insult anyone
Elses views here.

I started a thread with the hopes of trying to give advice, in the hopes that
Others too, would come and do the same. I think there is alot of talented
People here who could sadly really help progress this site, and yet this
Is what they chose to do.

 

[A Random User]

Of course, there can be issues with apexes no matter how they are structured. Many trees are apically dominant, so one must be prepared to handle the most growth in that area.

As far as actual visual proof. I have delt with this on about 3 trees during my bonsai. 10 years ago, I bought a pre styled tree. The apex was created by swooping a branch. It looked very nice. It held up for about 4 years, then it ran it's course and could not be pruned further. I created a whole new apex. Just the one branch wired up. It took about 2 years to get the new apex going.

The second one was on my straight trunk bunjin. That one also needed a new apex. It took me about 2-3 years to regrow one. Another tree was an arborvitae. However, that tree did not survive. If I look in my archives, I can probably find the pics of the trees with the old apexes. I think everyone has made good points and the thread has turned to a friendly an informative note. If you would like me to post the pics. I will gladly do it. Not in the context of see, I told you, but if you are curious and would like to see them. It might take a little while to find them, since we are talking about going back about 7-9 years.

Rob

I am done talking to you Rob.
Thanks for your contribution to this thread, I mean that.

 

[Poink88]

By the way Dario, this is the second time you have agreed with
Rob, on the exact same statement, you posted that my technique
Is a "dirty fast way of doing it", insinuating I am incorrect and
Wrong in my technique and I am just curious how one with going
In 3 years experience in bonsai, could of gained such an insight ?

You haven't answered my question that I put forth after your initial
Statement. I can only assume because you do think what Neli showed
Happening in Japan as incorrect, but don't want to put it out there.
Because the individual doing it is from Japan, who clearly knows a thing
Or two about bonsai.

Yet, here you are with such authority... throwing insults as though you know.
Baffles the mind... listen, you are more than happy to come to my threads
And disgree with me, you and the others. But, I have not once for the record,
Disrespected your views or opinions on this thread, and a demand you do
The same.

I never disrespected you...I offered my opinion the way I see it. You can agree or disagree...it is fine with me. It doesn't mean I am an authority either. Unlike you, I NEVER claimed to be.

If you are offended by the words "quick and dirty", that is your problem...because it is how it is TO ME. Demand all you want, I am not in any obligation to follow what you want (esp. unrealistic ones).

Your return sure creates mixed feelings...I've never seen locked threads after you left and seen several shortly after your return. Maybe that will tell you something? (though I know you will never see it that way.)

 

[A Random User]

I never disrespected you...I offered my opinion the way I see it. You can agree or disagree...it is fine with me. It doesn't mean I am an authority either. Unlike you, I NEVER claimed to be.

If you are offended by the words "quick and dirty", that is your problem...because it is how it is TO ME. Demand all you want, I am not in any obligation to follow what you want (esp. unrealistic ones).

Your return sure creates mixed feelings...I've never seen locked threads after you left and seen several shortly after your return. Maybe that will tell you something? (though I know you will never see it that way.)

You did disrespect me you sadly just cannot see it.

 

[Poink88]

You know what your problem is? You can dish it but cannot take it...you are too sensitive.

Read the posts well and you will see we are trying to be cordial. (if you are capable of that) Really.

 

[A Random User]

You know what your problem is? You can dish it but cannot take it...you are too sensitive.

Read the posts well and you will see we are trying to be cordial. (if you are capable of that) Really.

I did. Thanks.

 

[Poink88]

I did. Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[A Random User]

You're welcome.

So, I assume that an answer over how you can with your
Experience sit and make a judgment over my technique is
Out of the question ?

 

[october]

"Things are getting too spicy for the pepper". I think this was a good thread. I think we sometimes have to work what is there. There are many choices when it comes to styling. Although it might seem there is one way, time creates many. You might look at the top of a tree and find a nice apex can be created by swooping a branch over. On another tree, you might be able to create a traditionally structured apex. On another, maybe there is not enough for an apex, so you wire a branch and then wait for time to create it. My course of action does tend to be the one branch wired up and forward. For me, apexes are a big deal. When I first look at a tree to purchase, I assess for apex possibilities. I usually assess trees quite a bit before purchase. This gives me a rough idea of what I am in for when I go to style it.

Rob

 

[GrimLore]

So, I assume that an answer over how you can with your
Experience sit and make a judgment over my technique is
Out of the question ?

Personally I "thought" this thread was very informative... Many good pieces of advise from a diversified group. Much of it very helpful to people at various stages in the Art. I never saw a reason to make it a "Pissing" thread by the author and was hoping to see even more input by more members. Maybe I missed something but I "thought" sharing here no matter how it is viewed made it "spin". I saw it coming, I am out of this one *sigh*.

Note to author: Have you ever considered not being offended and even respected by many? Your ways are good and thank you for sharing - honest. Next time I PM you with a purchase request could you follow up this fast. Later man - enjoy being miserable *shrugs*.

Grimmy

 

[A Random User]

Personally I "thought" this thread was very informative... Many good pieces of advise from a diversified group. Much of it very helpful to people at various stages in the Art. I never saw a reason to make it a "Pissing" thread by the author and was hoping to see even more input by more members. Maybe I missed something but I "thought" sharing here no matter how it is viewed made it "spin". I saw it coming, I am out of this one *sigh*.

Note to author: Have you ever considered not being offended and even respected by many? Your ways are good and thank you for sharing - honest. Next time I PM you with a purchase request could you follow up this fast. Later man - enjoy being miserable *shrugs*.

Grimmy

Not sure what PM you might be talking about seeing that I have checked my box an no messages
From you at all. Sorry.

Side note I don't care honestly about being respected or offended by anyone here.
I knew a long time ago that this wasn't going to be the case. Hell, I don't even care if anyone
Here actually likes me... this is not important to me.
What is important however is doing and discussing bonsai.
This is one of the few places that is good to do this.
Now me and B-Nut haven't always seen eye to eye, and may never on
Some points, but out if respect to him, I told him I would try and make
A difference and not sit and argue with everyone, whether they deserve
It or not.

But, I gotta say it's really hard when you have people repeatedly trying to
Prove you are wrong, or say stupid little things like this is a dirty
Way of doing things. They made their views heard, gave their opinions,
I respected their views even though I still think they are incorrect, I didn't
Hound them over their ideas and try and prove them wrong. In fact I didn't
Even say they were incorrect, which is the funny part. This
Discussion could of easily ended along time ago if I wasn't stuck trying to
Have to defend myself.

I think I clearly made the point of lets just agree to disagree, and respect each
Others opinions, because they are all valuable, numerous times. So many I would
Have to go back and count. But, it couldn't stop there no...
Everyone had to keep pushing and when I get tired of it everyone gets all
Pissy, and says I am all sensitive. And they wonder why ???

I mean if this is going to be the way it is every time I post, I would
Rather just cut to the chase, and get rid of all the niceties. And I can just
Go back to not having to try and fool myself into believing that people here
Actually care about Bonsai or being nice. See I don't think anyone here actually
Realky does, but out of respect to B-Nut and the time and money and effort he has put
Into this site, I told him I was willing to try, but if you are going to accuse me of
Being a liar and giving out false or wrong information it isn't going to work, I will
Tell you that now.

 

[GrimLore]

If you are not going to appreciate and be willing to interact with others why do you post in the first place... I said it and I am staying with it - this was, is, and could be a very informative and interactive thread... Up to you to either deal with what is your practice or opinion - I do not see anyone saying you are wrong in any way. What I do see is they do not pat you on the ass and say you are 100 percent correct you flip out and fail to communicate why... Seems to me you could/would/and can be a valuable resource - why do you "f" yourself by being narrow minded As with Vance I would like to meet you someday and talk Bonsai - You do good things but perhaps misrepresent your intentions... I do not know you and again it was a good thread and could be again - depends on YOU and your attitude, not your expertise or thoughts, just on this end you share. Again - take a breath - you are not being attacked but appreciated until you speak "shit". Belly up to the bar...

Grimmy

 

[A Random User]

If you are not going to appreciate and be willing to interact with others why do you post in the first place... I said it and I am staying with it - this was, is, and could be a very informative and interactive thread... Up to you to either deal with what is your practice or opinion - I do not see anyone saying you are wrong in any way. What I do see is they do not pat you on the ass and say you are 100 percent correct you flip out and fail to communicate why... Seems to me you could/would/and can be a valuable resource - why do you "f" yourself by being narrow minded As with Vance I would like to meet you someday and talk Bonsai - You do good things but perhaps misrepresent your intentions... I do not know you and again it was a good thread and could be again - depends on YOU and your attitude, not your expertise or thoughts, just on this end you share. Again - take a breath - you are not being attacked but appreciated until you speak "shit". Belly up to the bar...

Grimmy

I am just not getting your drift, perhaps it's the big double standard that seems
To be in the way ?

EDIT*** Sorry, I see, it's all pretty clear now. You're right, I am not being attacked, and either are others when I choose
to respond in a similar way. Thanks !!! Man. I am glad we got this all settled up, now I can just go back to being normal
again.

 

[Poink88]

So, I assume that an answer over how you can with your
Experience sit and make a judgment over my technique is
Out of the question ?

First, you are an artist which I am not. You have nice trees and I don't. I will never be as good as you. But, I do not need experience to see what is beautiful and not. You hear music and appreciate it w/o training. Critics/judges/etc. hardly measure up to the one they are judging (just watch Miss Universe or any talent show).

I've shown most (if not all) my trees here. They are mediocre BUT I do not compromise. I do what I think is right for a better product in the end. this technique is great for vendors who need a quick bonsai. Great for demos to produce ooohhs and aaahhs. But for most properly built bonsai, it is not ideal FOR ME. If you believe it is the best technique, by all means use it on all your trees if you want.

Side note I don't care honestly about being respected or offended by anyone here.
I knew a long time ago that this wasn't going to be the case. Hell, I don't even care if anyone
Here actually likes me... this is not important to me.
What is important however is doing and discussing bonsai.

You say this but your actions say the opposite. You jump at anyone who doesn't agree with you though they try hard to discuss bonsai politely. I am not sure if you are in denial or something else.

But, I gotta say it's really hard when you have people repeatedly trying to
Prove you are wrong, or say stupid little things like this is a dirty
Way of doing things. They made their views heard, gave their opinions,
I respected their views even though I still think they are incorrect, I didn't
Hound them over their ideas and try and prove them wrong. In fact I didn't
Even say they were incorrect, which is the funny part. This
Discussion could of easily ended along time ago if I wasn't stuck trying to
Have to defend myself.

I think I clearly made the point of lets just agree to disagree, and respect each
Others opinions, because they are all valuable, numerous times. So many I would
Have to go back and count. But, it couldn't stop there no...
Everyone had to keep pushing and when I get tired of it everyone gets all
Pissy, and says I am all sensitive. And they wonder why ???

I mean if this is going to be the way it is every time I post, I would
Rather just cut to the chase, and get rid of all the niceties. And I can just
Go back to not having to try and fool myself into believing that people here
Actually care about Bonsai or being nice. See I don't think anyone here actually
Realky does, but out of respect to B-Nut and the time and money and effort he has put
Into this site, I told him I was willing to try, but if you are going to accuse me of
Being a liar and giving out false or wrong information it isn't going to work, I will
Tell you that now.

You think that the world revolves around you. Everything that people discuss is out to prove you wrong. There is a term for that...listen to the music titled "unwell" to learn what.

Problem with your "giving" is you expect everyone to line up, wag our tail, and roll over for it. It doesn't go that way. Offer it and let us decide if we want to take it or not.

You seem to love to give ultimatums then come crawling back (to issue more ultimatums or tantrums?)...

 

[Smoke]

Not sure what PM you might be talking about seeing that I have checked my box an no messages
From you at all. Sorry.

Side note I don't care honestly about being respected or offended by anyone here.
I knew a long time ago that this wasn't going to be the case. Hell, I don't even care if anyone
Here actually likes me... this is not important to me.
What is important however is doing and discussing bonsai.
This is one of the few places that is good to do this.
Now me and B-Nut haven't always seen eye to eye, and may never on
Some points, but out if respect to him, I told him I would try and make
A difference and not sit and argue with everyone, whether they deserve
It or not.

But, I gotta say it's really hard when you have people repeatedly trying to
Prove you are wrong, or say stupid little things like this is a dirty
Way of doing things. They made their views heard, gave their opinions,
I respected their views even though I still think they are incorrect, I didn't
Hound them over their ideas and try and prove them wrong. In fact I didn't
Even say they were incorrect, which is the funny part. This
Discussion could of easily ended along time ago if I wasn't stuck trying to
Have to defend myself.

I think I clearly made the point of lets just agree to disagree, and respect each
Others opinions, because they are all valuable, numerous times. So many I would
Have to go back and count. But, it couldn't stop there no...
Everyone had to keep pushing and when I get tired of it everyone gets all
Pissy, and says I am all sensitive. And they wonder why ???

I mean if this is going to be the way it is every time I post, I would
Rather just cut to the chase, and get rid of all the niceties. And I can just
Go back to not having to try and fool myself into believing that people here
Actually care about Bonsai or being nice. See I don't think anyone here actually
Realky does, but out of respect to B-Nut and the time and money and effort he has put
Into this site, I told him I was willing to try, but if you are going to accuse me of
Being a liar and giving out false or wrong information it isn't going to work, I will
Tell you that now.

This truly makes me wanna cry. Crap! A big tear just fell into the "M" key.

 

[A Random User]

This truly makes me wanna cry. Crap! A big tear just fell into the "M" key.

See, there's the Smoke that I love !!!

Hey, let me ask you a question what do you think of all this ???
The reason why I ask is that I know you have had to deal with this
type of a scenario... you know the kind where when you do something
everyone else jumps on your case, but when they do it to you,
you get folks all saying your complaining.

See, the reason why I ask, is that I am merely just trying to figure
out what's up. See, for some reason or another, this just sounds a bit
hypocritical to me. I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but if in the
future, I continually hound someone and try to prove them wrong,
what do you think the chances are that they are just going to sit back
and be cool with this ??? and what do you think the chances are of some
of these same folks who are saying I am in the wrong, will also at that time
be saying the same thing ???

I'm bettin' it's not a long shot...

By the way, what's up with that question mark ??? I mean, it kinda reminded
me of one of those Saturday morning cartoons, you know like roadrunner...
Perhaps that is just your way of saying what you were thinking when you came
up with that idea for an apex ???

 

[A Random User]

First, you are an artist which I am not. You have nice trees and I don't. I will never be as good as you. But, I do not need experience to see what is beautiful and not. You hear music and appreciate it w/o training. Critics/judges/etc. hardly measure up to the one they are judging (just watch Miss Universe or any talent show).

I've shown most (if not all) my trees here. They are mediocre BUT I do not compromise. I do what I think is right for a better product in the end. this technique is great for vendors who need a quick bonsai. Great for demos to produce ooohhs and aaahhs. But for most properly built bonsai, it is not ideal FOR ME. If you believe it is the best technique, by all means use it on all your trees if you want.


You say this but your actions say the opposite. You jump at anyone who doesn't agree with you though they try hard to discuss bonsai politely. I am not sure if you are in denial or something else.


You think that the world revolves around you. Everything that people discuss is out to prove you wrong. There is a term for that...listen to the music titled "unwell" to learn what.

Problem with your "giving" is you expect everyone to line up, wag our tail, and roll over for it. It doesn't go that way. Offer it and let us decide if we want to take it or not.

You seem to love to give ultimatums then come crawling back (to issue more ultimatums or tantrums?)...

See, this just comes off as though the teacher from Charlie Brown is talking...
Whan, whan, whan, whan whan....

Two times now, I have asked you very simple questions, and two times now you can't
give a very simple answer. You, have instead chosen to give me this, what ever this is;

I've shown most (if not all) my trees here. They are mediocre BUT I do not compromise. I do what I think is right for a better product in the end. this technique is great for vendors who need a quick bonsai. Great for demos to produce ooohhs and aaahhs. But for most properly built bonsai, it is not ideal FOR ME. If you believe it is the best technique, by all means use it on all your trees if you want.

Which is just well, as I said Charlie Brown teacher talk. It makes no sense...
you tell me that you are not an authority, but here you are with more authority talk.

Listen, I am not picking on you, or even trying to insult you... But you opened this whole
discussion up when you decided, to tell me and everyone here that what I was doing is
wrong... I am merely asking you to take your foot out of your mouth and give a legit
reason, that you didn't borrow from everyone else here, for why you think the way you
do. Rob, told me why he disagrees with it.

When I was a kid and I told the teacher I didn't like something, she told me that I cannot
dislike something without giving a sincere, well thought out reason why. For if I did, everyone
would just know I didn't know what I was talking about.

Oh, also... let me say that blowing smoke away from the fire, and trying to put blame on
me doesn't work, I don't care. I just wanted to know what was up. Now I know.

 

[coh]

I think you should follow Smoke's lead and start your own blog. That way you can control what people are allowed to say in response to your posts, and you wouldn't have to put up with all these attacks...even if they are mostly imaginary.

 

[A Random User]

I think you should follow Smoke's lead and start your own blog. That way you can control what people are allowed to say in response to your posts, and you wouldn't have to put up with all these attacks...even if they are mostly imaginary.

Yes, but then I would not be told I was being sensitive.

 

[Smoke]

See, there's the Smoke that I love !!!

Hey, let me ask you a question what do you think of all this ???
The reason why I ask is that I know you have had to deal with this
type of a scenario... you know the kind where when you do something
everyone else jumps on your case, but when they do it to you,
you get folks all saying your complaining.

Theres a difference. I don't complain. You have complained inscessantly in this thread. Man up, this is not that important. A man has to know when to hold em and when to fold em. You should have folded em about 40 posts ago in this thread.
I have been on the wrong side of topics before. For instance when I took a stand about quenching copper wire and not quenching copper wire. Most everyone said quenching does nothing to the copper and retains the softness, which it does. But what they forgot is that quenching also makes hard and soft spots in the wire as well as changes the quality of the wire at a molecular level. I am in the Home restoration business , rebuilding homes after fires. Most every fire I see requires the copper wire to be changed even if it looks perfectly fine. Fire inspectors will tell you that quenching hot copper wire with water and foam during the fighting of the fire will rendor the wire unsuitable for conducting electricity any longer due to ruining the wire at the molecular level and making it brittle. With that, why risk the wire and quench it. Whats it take like 20 minutes to allow it to cool? But rather ask any questions on why I feel this way, nearly everyone wished to argue instead.

I could see that this was a useless debate, and just left the thread, which died by the next day.

You on the other hand will beat a dead horse for weeks trying to either make everyone see your way, or continue to complain about it. I'm sorry but right now you sound like the President you admire so much. He continues to complain on a daily basis and the American people are sick and tired of his arrogance and talking down to people. Stop posting in this thread and it will die tomorrow. Move on to your next thread and learn something from this one.

If you don't like it......sue me.