Some trees I'm working on...

[coh]

i honestly find that this decision is very respectful of the cultivar's nature, and it should be valued for that (just like a schnauzer wins best-in-show for being a schnauzer, not for disguising itself as an old english sheepdog)

the well-known shishigashira at Omiya is beautiful, and while it does not have many 'straight' lines it does share with yours the spirit of dramatic trunks and branches which i feel is an important quality of the cultivar (as well as characteristic foliage pads)

don't let anybody persuade you to chop those trunks!

Thanks for your comments! You've put it more eloquently and accurately than I did. The structure of this tree appeals to me on some level despite the multiple "flaws". I'm planning to respect
what is there and attempt to design a branch/foliage structure that makes sense and is attractive (I actually think it is already, at least based on the fall image...though obviously a lot of branch
work and development is needed).

It does fit with Lingnan style - sharply angular. That could be interesting IMHO.

Yes, I was thinking that it had a sort of penjing/lingnan feel to it.

 

[coh]

Maybe I'm a little confused...

Are you not concerned with this tree becoming what most would consider a "bonsai tree"?
Keeping it like a "patio tree"?

I think the tree as is does have a tree-ish look, but as you said, its not a Bonsai.
Beautiful nonetheless.

Well, it is being developed using bonsai techniques, is planted in a shallow container, so it's a patio tree? I'm not even sure what that is supposed
to mean. Tree is currently 18" tall, is that a patio tree? It'll still be a bonsai, just not one that conforms to many of the standard conventions. It won't
be trunk chopped and regrown, I won't be bending those trunks.

The way I see it is with single trunk trees, you need to have taper and movement. For clumps, you can have straight untaper trunks and it still look good. If you layer where I was thinking, the straight trunks would be much shorter so it will be much less obvious like what you have right now. Just something to think about.

It's not really a single trunk tree, it's really more of a multiple trunk (almost clump) style to begin with. There is no single trunk line that runs all the way to the apex with horizontal branches
coming off. It has multiple ascending trunks (or sub trunks), somewhat similar to how American Elm grows.

I do appreciate your thoughts, the idea of layering at the three-trunk point is something I hadn't considered previously.

 

[just.wing.it]

Alright alright.....jeez....
Well, thanks for sharing the pics.
I like it.

 

[Adair M]

@coh, well, I wish you had layered a little higher up. Where the secondary trunk splits off. Then, it would be more of a “twin trunk”. Right now, it’s a single trunk with a “ too low” heavy first branch.

I have a “garden” shishi.



It’s about 5 feet tall. I just planted it a couple days ago! I’ll start taking airlayers next year.

 

[coh]

@coh, well, I wish you had layered a little higher up. Where the secondary trunk splits off. Then, it would be more of a “twin trunk”.

Yeah, I don't know why I layered it where I did. Probably inexperience. There is a scar on the trunk on the other side, I may have thought that would mess up the layering process.
I may re-layer a little higher at some point.

Right now, it’s a single trunk with a “ too low” heavy first branch.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, I have seen any number of trees (both bonsai and in nature) with a similarly "too low/heavy" first branches.
It doesn't really bother me. If it bothers others, I might consider that a good thing

Your garden shishi should provide lots of opportunities to reproduce a tree like mine! Go for it! LOL.

 

[Adair M]

Yeah, I don't know why I layered it where I did. Probably inexperience. There is a scar on the trunk on the other side, I may have thought that would mess up the layering process.
I may re-layer a little higher at some point.


That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, I have seen any number of trees (both bonsai and in nature) with a similarly "too low/heavy" first branches.
It doesn't really bother me. If it bothers others, I might consider that a good thing

Your garden shishi should provide lots of opportunities to reproduce a tree like mine! Go for it! LOL.

While nature produces many forms, not all are considered to be beautiful. When making bonsai, I prefer to choose the beautiful forms rather than the plain or ugly forms as my inspiration. Yeah, I’m weird that way.

 

[coh]

While nature produces many forms, not all are considered to be beautiful. When making bonsai, I prefer to choose the ones I find beautiful rather than the ones I find plain or ugly as my inspiration. Yeah, I’m weird that way.

Fixed it for you, as I think that's what you meant to say (or, if you prefer, what I think you should have said). Your original quote is an example of why so many people have issues with things you write here.

BTW, the only way you're "weird" is that you seem to think there is only one way to do everything. Remember you don't speak for everyone; "beauty" or appropriateness is not something that you get to
define for everyone. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and not every bonsai has to fit into the same box.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

while subjectivity does play an important role, I think it's also important to recognize that aesthetic value is more complex than pure subjectivity. subjectivity doesn't undermine objectivity; these two binary notions are based in outdated 20th century philosophical notions that no longer have a place in our world

modeling the individual within consensus and social networks is extraordinarily complex

 

[Tieball]

Nope, only removed virtually. Still there

Whew! Great choice. I believe those small branches add a great deal of character, balance and grounding. Mighty fine!

 

[Adair M]

Fixed it for you, as I think that's what you meant to say (or, if you prefer, what I think you should have said). Your original quote is an example of why so many people have issues with things you write here.

BTW, the only way you're "weird" is that you seem to think there is only one way to do everything. Remember you don't speak for everyone; "beauty" or appropriateness is not something that you get to
define for everyone. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and not every bonsai has to fit into the same box.

Which of these images is more beautiful?

Image 1:



Image 2:



Both are red Ferrari’s.

Both images are “real”, they are actual automobiles.

If You were to make a model of a Ferrari to have on your desk, assuming you wanted a model Ferrari on your desk, which image would you choose to base your model upon? Both images are real, and happen in nature.

 

[Maloghurst]

Which of these images is more beautiful?

Image 1:

View attachment 233929

Image 2:

View attachment 233928

Both are red Ferrari’s.

Both images are “real”, they are actual automobiles.

If You were to make a model of a Ferrari to have on your desk, assuming you wanted a model Ferrari on your desk, which image would you choose to base your model upon? Both images are real, and happen in nature.

This a bad comparison. To be fair your asking wether someone would like the tree they have or the same tree chopped to bits? Lol
The second image has some very beautiful abstract shapes in my opinion.
You should compare the human form if you wanted to compare something.
What image is more beautiful? There is no right answer.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

both comparison’s miss the mark, because bonsai never is a comparison!

i don’t look at this shishigashira and put it up against another tree to determine which is beautiful tree and which is the tree that is not beautiful.

In other words, the question was never whether this tree, or another tree (but not both), was the beautiful tree. The question is just whether this one is beautiful or not, and that’s a decision that any individual is free to make, and unquantifiable factors come into play, all of which are a blend and complex of the individual and the social.

The word ‘personal’ in ‘personal taste’ is very misleading.

 

[Maloghurst]

both comparison’s miss the mark, because bonsai never is a comparison!

i don’t look at this shishigashira and put it up against another tree to determine which is beautiful tree and which is the tree that is not beautiful.

In other words, the question was never whether this tree, or another tree (but not both), was the beautiful tree. The question is just whether this one is beautiful or not, and that’s a decision that any individual is free to make, and unquantifiable factors come into play, all of which are a blend and complex of the individual and the social.

The word ‘personal’ in ‘personal taste’ is very misleading.

That’s the point I was making with my comparison. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

but it’s not. It never is. It only feels that way.

 

[Maloghurst]

but it’s not. It never is. It only feels that way.[/

but it’s not. It never is. It only feels that way.

again, my comparison was only to illustrate that you can not compare!

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@coh check out post #33

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-maple-forest-planting.37652/page-2#post-636394

that maple by @Drew is a stellar example of the fact that relatively straight trunks can make very, very nice trees!

love your trees @Drew @coh

 

[coh]

Updates on the willow leaf ficuses from post 88.

Both were defoliated on June 10, with some pruning and thinning (and a bit of wiring was done). Then the two were let alone to enjoy the summer. It was cool at first and took a while for the summer growth spurt to start, but then the summer turned quite warm and growth has been strong. Both will get some thinning before they come in next month.


Tree 1: June 10 (originally purchased from Meehans)

Lots of apex development still needed but this was thinned out quite a bit compared to how it started. I'm toying with the idea of bringing the right branch down closer to horizontal but not sure...




Current photo. This tree was just repotted and some large roots were removed from the bottom. It will need more root removal in the next year or two. Planted back in the same deep container to encourage more surface root development. Note, lower back branch (that comes off the base) has been covered up here as it will probably be removed once a replacement back branch higher up gets more developed. Apex needs to become wider/thinner but this may be close to final height.




Tree 2: June 10 (originally purchased from a seller on ebay)

On this one the front view may be adjusted slightly once I repot (probably next year) and see how the surface roots have developed. Stick on the right side is being used to prop up that branch. Apex still being developed but is closer to final form than tree 1.



Current photo:

 

[coh]

Boxwood update from post 56:

Did some pruning and thinning recently but don't want to do too much this late in the season. Looking too symmetrical right now but I hope to change that over time. My goal, I think, is to open up some areas that are currently just foliage masses and expose some secondary branching. Unfortunately the primary trunks/branches aren't very attractive so I have to be careful. For instance, I cleared out too much in the area just left of the center and exposed a rather unattractive horizontal trunk/branch that runs left to right, in conflict with the other trunks. Will need to grow foliage in front of that again.

Note sure what to do with the long dead branch below the canopy on the left. I'm bringing some foliage over to the left to partially cover it but I think it's too long and the segments are too straight. Probably going to have to cut it back.



A year ago. Think it looked better, though the left side doesn't look as clunky. Work in progress and these are slooow...

 

[coh]

I wanted a Brazilian Rain Tree for a while, so I sold off a few of my other tropicals and picked up this one from Bill Valavanis last September. Pretty much just let it grow through the winter under lights (trimming back extensions that got way too long). This summer I let it grow for a while, then about a week and a half ago gave it a significant cut back. Removed some overly thick branches in the upper canopy. It's still too dense and once the new growth gets going I'll be doing some more selective pruning.

Ultimately I think the current canopy is roughly what I'm aiming for, with a sort of flat-top upper area and a lower region based on the left trunk. It will have to be thinned, probably some more reduction of the heavier (and crossing) branching in the upper canopy. I left a few lower straggly branches that may eventually come off but can decide that later.

Enjoying working with this. It did well through the winter indoors (under MH light), better than my willow leaf ficuses do. And we've had a sunny hot summer (by Rochester standards) so it's growing well now. Needs a repotting and I'm trying to decide if I want to do that after the next growth surge (so probably early-mid August) or wait till it's indoors in stable conditions. Might change the planting angle a bit but the vertical rise of the lower trunk doesn't really bother me.

 

[JudyB]

I wanted a Brazilian Rain Tree for a while, so I sold off a few of my other tropicals and picked up this one from Bill Valavanis last September. Pretty much just let it grow through the winter under lights (trimming back extensions that got way too long). This summer I let it grow for a while, then about a week and a half ago gave it a significant cut back. Removed some overly thick branches in the upper canopy. It's still too dense and once the new growth gets going I'll be doing some more selective pruning.

Ultimately I think the current canopy is roughly what I'm aiming for, with a sort of flat-top upper area and a lower region based on the left trunk. It will have to be thinned, probably some more reduction of the heavier (and crossing) branching in the upper canopy. I left a few lower straggly branches that may eventually come off but can decide that later.

Enjoying working with this. It did well through the winter indoors (under MH light), better than my willow leaf ficuses do. And we've had a sunny hot summer (by Rochester standards) so it's growing well now. Needs a repotting and I'm trying to decide if I want to do that after the next growth surge (so probably early-mid August) or wait till it's indoors in stable conditions. Might change the planting angle a bit but the vertical rise of the lower trunk doesn't really bother me.

View attachment 317580

Nice tree. You can get away with a pretty shallow pot on these if you can keep them well watered, and it suits the tree structure to have a wider shallower pot. I found mine always put on as much growth inside (just under fluorescents) as they did in the summer!