bennybonsai
Mame
I recently chaned the soil of all my trees. Ive put them in 40% acadama 40% pummice 20% organic compost. Im finding it hard to tell if they are damp or dry. Could i just water them a little each day as its really well draining?
Soil change. Can i water every day?
- Thread starter bennybonsai
- Start date
achtungluchs
Seedling
I can’t really see the 20% compost in the picture—it looks like the top layer is entirely inorganic. Maybe it’s just underneath?
You keep your trees outdoors most of the time, except in winter, right? Watering every day indoors might sometimes be too much, depending on various factors. But if they’re outside, I’d water daily since there’s better airflow.
I’d add a sphagnum moss top dressing and water as soon as the moss dries out.
You keep your trees outdoors most of the time, except in winter, right? Watering every day indoors might sometimes be too much, depending on various factors. But if they’re outside, I’d water daily since there’s better airflow.
I’d add a sphagnum moss top dressing and water as soon as the moss dries out.
RoadManDenDron
Chumono
I was also going to say I can't even see the compost in the mix from the pics, but I believe you it's there.
What I suspect will happen here is the compost has washed to the bottom of the pot where it will stay wet much longer than the akadama, pumice above and possibly bring problems
I know it's hard to get your head round but the compost is completely unnecessary,
The akadama holds water without waterlogging and clogging up drainage
The akadama in the pics is still a bit wet, it just doesn't look the same kind of wet as organic soils so may take some getting used to, this is why we like it, it still allows airflow and holds water
Really hard to say when you should water, I'd be worried about what's going on under the surface here,
What I suspect will happen here is the compost has washed to the bottom of the pot where it will stay wet much longer than the akadama, pumice above and possibly bring problems
I know it's hard to get your head round but the compost is completely unnecessary,
The akadama holds water without waterlogging and clogging up drainage
The akadama in the pics is still a bit wet, it just doesn't look the same kind of wet as organic soils so may take some getting used to, this is why we like it, it still allows airflow and holds water
Really hard to say when you should water, I'd be worried about what's going on under the surface here,
bennybonsai
Mame
@RoadManDenDron @achtungluchs the 20% organic i put in was Yorkshire bonsais outdoor organic mix. So if they reccomend growing outdoor trees in it i cant really see it being a problem sitting at the bottom of my pot imho, they also did fine last year in my 100% organic mix. I only changed because of everything ive read with regards to how much better an inorganic mix is. so im not worried about getting problems from Yorkshire bonsais mix being at the bottom of my pots if thays the case. Yes they are all kept outside the whole year bar the Carmona. I think your right i must just have to pay close attention. Im going to just give them a little every day or 2 and try get feel for this new soil im using. Thanks again for the input.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Stick a skewer down into the soil, pull it out and check the moisture every day to see if the tree needs watered. If your trees are in a sharply draining mix, that may be every day.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Unfortunately.. Fine organics, such as compost, do cause troible as explained before. A layer at the bottom of the pot which stays wet, while the top dries out. As a result you will have big contrasts in the pot and a hard time watering well.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Kurodama Organic Bonsai Soil
Kurodama is an organic soil specifically used for Bonsai trees. It provides both good drainage and high water retention. It can be used on its own or can be mixed with other substrates such as Akadama or Kanuma or any other kind of soil, suitable for Bonsais. This soil is sold in Litres, please...
www.yorkshirebonsai.co.uk
Is this the stuff?
bennybonsai
Mame
Well unfortunately i just payed a lot of money for the soil and i cant afford to change it again so its staying as is. Hopefully they dont die from the fine soil at the bottom of the pot.
DonielDoom
Mame
Two thoughts come to mind here:
1 - the sunk-cost fallacy is one to keep in the back of your head with Bonsai, especially as we're getting our first material and learning. It's defined as "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial."
2 - I've recently been discovering that repotted trees will have a short amount of time before they start growing new roots in the new medium. In other words, you may be able to run corrective action to fix a minor mistake on that repot within a few days. As you can imagine, the health of the tree is key here and if you're starting with an unhealthy tree, your results may match the level of health. Additionally, the species you're working with will also dictate how much you can mess with roots (EG: a pine and a ficus can handle much different approaches). This action isn't all inclusive to everything that could go wrong on a repot, it will be situational and not a tool to lean on.
I advocate for the chopstick method mentioned earlier - that's the most objective way to learn watering needs in a way that will stick, IMO.
bennybonsai
Mame
Okay thanks @doniand everyone else. So they should be fine for the year right? Ill change soil again next year? There may have only been 15% organic in there. I thought lots of people into Bonsai use a percentage of organic soil anyway, not everyone i know but ive seen a few top names do it. why is it such a problem for me to do it in this instance?
DonielDoom
Mame
Sorry, I didn't add my response to your question.
I wouldn't water everyday. I agree with the reasoning that's already been posted.
Personally, I like (most of) my trees, though they're all unrefined and sticks in pots. When I get to check them, I love to zoom in and see the growth, among other things, happening. If I were to approach my watering with a blanket strategy, I wouldn't be able to carve out that specific time and attention for the tree. Therefore, I wouldn't really see what needs to be done and wouldn't enjoy noticing the details.
Checking for water in my world is only one aspect of "greeting the tree" and seeing what we can do to be healthy.
I wouldn't water everyday. I agree with the reasoning that's already been posted.
Personally, I like (most of) my trees, though they're all unrefined and sticks in pots. When I get to check them, I love to zoom in and see the growth, among other things, happening. If I were to approach my watering with a blanket strategy, I wouldn't be able to carve out that specific time and attention for the tree. Therefore, I wouldn't really see what needs to be done and wouldn't enjoy noticing the details.
Checking for water in my world is only one aspect of "greeting the tree" and seeing what we can do to be healthy.
DonielDoom
Mame
I think the main issue is the size of particle of the organic matter. Fines are the concern.
You're right in that organics are pretty commonly used, from what I've seen as a beginner. I don't see more than 20% organics in the total composition when it is used. The key is it being the same or similar particle size as the rest of your substrate, which is typically pretty coarse.
I have no large experience with this subject, though. This is information based on reading and casual research. Bring your own grain of salt.
bennybonsai
Mame
@DonielDoom ahhh okay right! Sorry i understand now. Well it took me about 5 hours to do yesterday so im going to have a think tonight and maybe ill wash the akadama, pummice and repot with just that tomorrow. At least the root work is done. If i do go ahead with that will they be okay with liquid feed or will they need a slow release in the soil to make up for having no organic matter?
bennybonsai
Mame
Though im still very tempted to just keep an eye on them haha
RoadManDenDron
Chumono
I can't find an outdoor organic mix on the Yorkshire bonsai website
I know some experienced people like to use some organics, namely composted bark, I would be amazed if they use actual soil but would be interested to hear if you have examples
if you can post a pic of the organics may help
I think its important to mention here, we are all only trying to help
I have only seen this particular tree so don't even know what else you've repotted into this mix, but my mix for pines is very different to my mix for deciduous
Many people still grow out material in compost with pumice or perlite or grit
The issue I forsee is, as mentioned
The akadama and pumice at the top will appear dry while the bottom is still wet, prime conditions for root rot
As Judy mentioned a chop stick will help keep an eye on the situation
I know some experienced people like to use some organics, namely composted bark, I would be amazed if they use actual soil but would be interested to hear if you have examples
if you can post a pic of the organics may help
I think its important to mention here, we are all only trying to help
I have only seen this particular tree so don't even know what else you've repotted into this mix, but my mix for pines is very different to my mix for deciduous
Many people still grow out material in compost with pumice or perlite or grit
The issue I forsee is, as mentioned
The akadama and pumice at the top will appear dry while the bottom is still wet, prime conditions for root rot
As Judy mentioned a chop stick will help keep an eye on the situation
bennybonsai
Mame
@RoadManDenDron sorry greenwood bonsai
bennybonsai
Mame
Yeah its super fine
bennybonsai
Mame
WNC Bonsai
Masterpiece
For organic see if you can find composted and chopped or shredded pine or other tree bark. Here in the US we get it at garden centers as it is used for mulch and soil improvement. It should be sifted to about the same diameter as your soil components to remove the fines and the coarse stuff. I use a mix of 50% pumice and 50% lava rock or heat treated slate. Recently folks are experimenting with pumice alone. Then when I am repotting I add in the sifted pine bark in various percentages depending on the species. For most conifers that is about 10% and deciduous trees 20-30%. For water loving trees like larch, spruce, hinoki I will add as much as 50% organic. The important thing is to have a mix that is all about the same size as the fines will get in between the larger particles and clog the soil, impeding drainage and prevents oxygen getting in. If I were in the UK I’d want a very free draining mix as the wet conditions can be hard on tree roots. You will find it is a lot cheaper to make your own soil instead of buying it premade. Plus akadama is an overpriced luxury that really isn’t needed except in older trees for refinement.
Joe Dupre'
Omono
It's almost never advisable to water on a schedule UNLESS you know how your trees react through experience. Learning when your trees need water is a skill you must acquire. A completely wrung out sponge is a very good comparison to how moist your soil should be.
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