Sickly JWP

[Troutnut]

I’m in need of advice regarding my JWP ‘Glauca’—I’ve had it going strong for ~8 months without issue until I decided to repot into a larger pond basket.

The images are from several weeks ago after I pinched off some dying-looking tips (browning of needles, dark coloration at tips). In fear, I repotted back down to a smaller pond basket with significantly less organic media, added mycorrhizae, and layered volcanic rock beneath and on top of the substrate. Reddit “experts” informed me that my tree is dead, as JWPs are indeed brutal in their retribution for poor care.

What confounds me is that the phloem appears to be in full vigor—scratches at any point of the tree, even on a now-bare branch, produce
vibrant green phloem and ordinary sap release. The color under bark has had the same healthy appearance before and after the emergency repot.

For further information where it isn’t obvious—this tree has lived under consistent sun on a south-facing porch, where I suspect that it must have experienced root rot due to overpotting and overwatering due to excess rainfall without refuge. When I repotted, I investigated the roots and found some weakness and rot, but largely healthy root material. I avoided total removal of soil around the roots, but I did encourage some spread as I repotted. Further, I have treated this tree with spinosad, neem oil, and full spectrum fungicide without negative effect throughout the summer.

Do any practiced pine-keepers have any input for me? Does this look like disease or is it a symptom of root rot? Could this tree recover with proper potting? Would it be best to place the tree in sphagnum to attempt to recover, or should I leave it in my largely inorganic/minimally organic substrate?

Edit: photos are from before the repot.

 

[Shibui]

The pics show your pine is not happy but it appears far from dead.
It is really difficulty to be sure what has happened but problems often occur when trees are potted on into a different potting soil as water does not easily cross a boundary from one soil type to another. That means while you think you are watering well and the new soil looks well watered, the old soil ball (with the roots) can be getting drier and drier (or staying too wet). Pond baskets only compound the water problem as they dry out from all sides.
I'm definitely not a fan of pond baskets, at least not in my hot, dry summers.

Constant change is not good for trees. While it is trying to recover from one assault you are changing conditions and making it work to adjust again. I'd leave it be, manage water and care as best you can and cross fingers or whatever you believe will help. I don't think moving to sphagnum will help and may even be detrimental for an already compromised pine.

 

[MaciekA]

Strongly agree with @Shibui on "leave it be, manage water". If I was assigned the task of making this tree happy again, sparing no expense and maximizing attention given, it would mostly sit untouched on the ground for the next several years except for me helping along drainage through practices like tipping the pot at an angle. Like @Shibui suggested, making changes will reset recovery back to zero or greatly hasten decline. Another repot or pruning or needle plucking and this tree really is toast.

@Shibui mentions moisture management from a hot-dry-breezy climate point of view where there is strong wicking influence on a pond basket. That is a summer risk to think about in future summers when vigor reappears.

In your climate though, with this specific tree, with that pot and that volume of soil, with the upcoming months of cool weather and leaves dropping across the northeast, for the moment, it would be very surprising if this tree could as much as a drink a soda can or two of water between now and early spring. There's not a lot of needles to transpire water, and it kinda looks like all the tips have been deleted from every branch, so the amount of water this tree draws out of the soil is next to nothing, and it will take time to generate buds and get running tips again.

So to average out these two pieces of advice from us, I would get into the habit of checking soil moisture often, digging down an inch or two with your finger, then only watering if you see significant drying of particles specifically in the volume of original root-containing soil, not the enveloping newer soil you slipped this tree into. The newer soil will dry out slower due to lack of roots (its closer to the wicking edges as @Shibui points out but still, it should stay wet longer for now so long as the interior didn't go hydrophobic -- immerse once if unsure and you want to reset to a known-moist-all-through state). Anyway, if you do that check, dig down an inch or two and see a moist particle, point the hose elsewhere. If there is moisture at the top / outside there's more moisture down/within.

In spite of all this attention to watering it is really really important NOT to leave with the impression that pine needles go brown because they're thirsty. The way you get root rot in a pine in real life is by saturating the living daylights out of the roots and making sure they never respire oxygen. A pine only needs water when it's shown you evidence it's been drinking water. That's dried out soil particles at least an inch into the soil for a tree like this. Aside from keeping it in sun, the water-only-when-dry practice is really the only thing that matters for the next couple years for this tree.

 

[Paradox]

Also agree on the advice to leave it be.
Not sure when you repotted, but if it was after May, it was too late. That was your first mistake. Disturbing the roots and compromising water uptake at the beginning of summer or in summer when it needs water the most. The second was repotting again in quick succession, disturbing the roots twice and preventing recovery.

I'm not convinced it can/will recover at this point. It's pretty far gone.

Leave it alone. Only water it when it needs it, not on a set schedule and hope for the best.

If by some miracle it does survive, I would do nothing to this tree besides water and fertilizer for at least 3 growing seasons. Only if it is recovered and growing strong again would I do any more work or repotting.

In the meantime, learn about the proper timing of repotting and work on JWP for the NE US and prepare to follow that regimen.

Good luck

 

[Troutnut]

The pics show your pine is not happy but it appears far from dead.
It is really difficulty to be sure what has happened but problems often occur when trees are potted on into a different potting soil as water does not easily cross a boundary from one soil type to another. That means while you think you are watering well and the new soil looks well watered, the old soil ball (with the roots) can be getting drier and drier (or staying too wet). Pond baskets only compound the water problem as they dry out from all sides.
I'm definitely not a fan of pond baskets, at least not in my hot, dry summers.

Constant change is not good for trees. While it is trying to recover from one assault you are changing conditions and making it work to adjust again. I'd leave it be, manage water and care as best you can and cross fingers or whatever you believe will help. I don't think moving to sphagnum will help and may even be detrimental for an already compromised pine.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. In the case that I killed my Glauca, I picked up a Fukai that I hope to treat much better.

 

[Troutnut]

Strongly agree with @Shibui on "leave it be, manage water". If I was assigned the task of making this tree happy again, sparing no expense and maximizing attention given, it would mostly sit untouched on the ground for the next several years except for me helping along drainage through practices like tipping the pot at an angle. Like @Shibui suggested, making changes will reset recovery back to zero or greatly hasten decline. Another repot or pruning or needle plucking and this tree really is toast.

@Shibui mentions moisture management from a hot-dry-breezy climate point of view where there is strong wicking influence on a pond basket. That is a summer risk to think about in future summers when vigor reappears.

In your climate though, with this specific tree, with that pot and that volume of soil, with the upcoming months of cool weather and leaves dropping across the northeast, for the moment, it would be very surprising if this tree could as much as a drink a soda can or two of water between now and early spring. There's not a lot of needles to transpire water, and it kinda looks like all the tips have been deleted from every branch, so the amount of water this tree draws out of the soil is next to nothing, and it will take time to generate buds and get running tips again.

So to average out these two pieces of advice from us, I would get into the habit of checking soil moisture often, digging down an inch or two with your finger, then only watering if you see significant drying of particles specifically in the volume of original root-containing soil, not the enveloping newer soil you slipped this tree into. The newer soil will dry out slower due to lack of roots (its closer to the wicking edges as @Shibui points out but still, it should stay wet longer for now so long as the interior didn't go hydrophobic -- immerse once if unsure and you want to reset to a known-moist-all-through state). Anyway, if you do that check, dig down an inch or two and see a moist particle, point the hose elsewhere. If there is moisture at the top / outside there's more moisture down/within.

In spite of all this attention to watering it is really really important NOT to leave with the impression that pine needles go brown because they're thirsty. The way you get root rot in a pine in real life is by saturating the living daylights out of the roots and making sure they never respire oxygen. A pine only needs water when it's shown you evidence it's been drinking water. That's dried out soil particles at least an inch into the soil for a tree like this. Aside from keeping it in sun, the water-only-when-dry practice is really the only thing that matters for the next couple years for this tree.

Thank you for this thorough input. I’ll be keeping my tree as it is and ill be allowing it to recover.