Shut the whole damn country down!

[hemmy]

COVID killed the Easter Bunny! Ventura County has prohibited the sale of clothes, jewelry, furniture, etc from big box stores that sell food. They have areas roped off. No Easter egg sales. We distanced, closed schools and locked down early so per capita we have less cases than some midwestern areas. But we are close to LA county so it could/will get bad. It’s a pretty helpless feeling situation. What’s the right response? Nobody knows and yet everybody has the “right” answer. I like science and data, so I’ve found some weird catharsis in analyzing the data and reading the research. I’ve also found relief in preaching to my wife and family about what we “should” be doing. But they are sick of listening, so I finally understand why people post to the Tea House!

 

[hemmy]

Here’s my rant. Ignore it, disprove it, agree with it, whatever makes you feel like you also are doing something.

China has likely covered up the number of cases and deaths. But there was virtually no stopping this from reaching us. At best we could have hoped to contain it with better quarantines, massive testing, actual case contact tracking, social distancing, and isolated lockdowns. We failed. But so did most of the western world that hadn’t gone through serious contact with SARS and MERS. That does not change our need to unify and act. Early they said children weren’t getting it. I call B.S., they were likely just mild or asymptomatic. Iceland, China, and the Diamond Princess ship are indicating possible mild or asymptomatic cases at 25-50% higher than the positive symptomatic cases. That is scary and seemingly impossible to contain the spread.

I’m not downplaying the severity by claiming the actual death rate will be lower than initially predicted. If it was only 10x of a bad flu death, the lack of vaccine or antivirals makes that a national emergency. The death rate, the easy spread, the need for ventilators, and the uncertainty of immunity makes this so much worse than the “flu”.

But I think there is confusion over what “flatten the curve” means. Maybe this *poof* vanishes by June and flattening the curve meant keeping that initial surge low before cases trailed off. But I’m not holding my breath. It’s here to stay, it will not be seasonal until it has run through a lot of the population. Flatten the curve should mean keeping the peak surge lower and at a manageable number, while hospitals AND communities ramp up ability to respond to a hospitalization rate that will continue to exceed capacity for several months in hot spot areas. We only average ~2.4 beds per 1000 people in this country. Even a decently flattened curve overwhelms our current health care system.

Everyone of us should be contacting County Health Departments, local and state government to ensure that they are working on a response to double or more the emergency hospital bed capacity. Tell them they should be working to secure private labs to deliver testing kits to local doctors offices. Testing will be critical as we come out of lockdown. Where possible, all communities should be sourcing or creating the things needed to expand hospital bed capacity. Do you work somewhere that uses nitrile gloves? Donate as many as possible.

As we come out of lockdowns and head into summer, it will still be present in this country. Community spread could occur and travel related cases will occur. But we need to get a handle on how mild or asymptomatic cases present themselves (are some asymptomatic behaving like mild colds?). After lockdown, it’s possible that out of an abundance of caution, when you get a bad cold you need to have to the ability see (and afford) a doctor or clinic for screening and testing. Mild positive cases need to be quarantined at home or a designated facility if they have at-risk relatives at home. The positive cases need to be referred to a team of case trackers that retrace steps and notify all persons of possible contact. We all have to start taking being sick a lot more serious. No more going to work with that “minor” cold. No more loading the kid with Tylenol and sending them out the door because you can’t miss work. We need community solutions for temporary daycare for blue color workers and companies must be forced to take sick leave serious. These are the kinds of things all us can do and must advocate for in our communities.

Social distancing will have to be the new normal until a vaccine is created. Be prepared to do your part and don’t be selfish. Don’t give into to fear, panic and political tribalism. Use your vote this fall, whichever direction.

And remember the ultimate goal. A population healthy enough to be able to hold a Winter Silhouette’s Show and the Spring Bonsai shows we all missed this year!!

Rant over. Cheers!

 

[eryk2kartman]

Guys,
this is all planned and going according to their plan, what did you expect.....

 

[A. Gorilla]

The excess mortality numbers for Europe just came in, and guess what?
There are currently LESS OLD PEOPLE DYING THAN DURING ANY OTHER FLU SEASON IN THE PAST YEARS.

How long will this media-propagated hysteria continue?
At which point do we start holding journalists for unsubstiated claims and outright lies accountable?

 

[AlainK]

There are currently LESS OLD PEOPLE DYING THAN DURING ANY OTHER FLU SEASON IN THE PAST YEARS.

Right, and for several very good reasons:

1/ this is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, etc. Statistics will mean something when the pandemics is over.
2/ the "common" flu is much milder in its consequences than the Covid-19: weak people, people with other health problems are more likely to have severe forms of the disease, in other words the elderly. That's why here, the vaccine against the flu is free for people over 65 (and health workers).
3/ young people are more likely to have a fatal issue from Covid-19 than from the flu, it shows this virus is no "hoax", or joke. Apparently some studies suggest that depending on your blood group, there's a difference, etc.
4/ in countries with a high proportion of overweight people, or people with diabetes, it's no surprise that even young people are at risk. Maybe it's also time to reflect about healthy eating. The proportion of people affected by the virus and the number of deaths will be interesting to study, to try and find why in Germany for instance it's much lower than in Italy or Spain (sauerkraut and beer ? -JUST JOKING. Though cabbage contains a lot of C-vitamin that are useful to boost your defences. Not sure about beer though...)

When it's over, it will be interesting to study cross-statistics about the percentage of deaths, eating habits and daily routine. But now is too early.

Stay safe, stay home, don't propagate the virus. That's not a "soviet" infringement on civil liberties, that's just common sense if yu care about your fellow citizens.

 

[Woocash]

@A. Gorilla

You know the whole thing is public health trial anyway? Regardless of the measures that are taken. Different countries are using different systems. Some are using none. We will see what is most successful in the end.

Running around with your tin foil hat on, spreading lies about conspiracies and pretending this is all just an overblown load of nonsense though is just dangerous and shows a complete lack of respect for humanity. If even one person reads your comments and is convinced to not believe the corona hype then someone else dies as a result of their carelessness then that death is on you.

I don’t like “people” but there are enough people I care about to not take unnecessary chances just because I don't trust the government. Save lives now, ask questions later.

 

[leatherback]

Interesting to see this discussion here evolve: I am heading a team trying to draft a document explaining to our diverse community on campus the directions taken in the Netherlands, and why a contrast exists to what they might see in their home country, from a cultural perspective.



One thing is for sure. It is a big mess and loads of misinformation is around.

 

[AlainK]

our diverse community

We are one world, and this shows that "walls" are paper walls.

I used to be an idealist, now I'm an optimistic pessimist : to me this crisis shows how we really must work together to overcome such crisis. Not sure about the outcome because it would imply a reflection on national, or even personal profit. Not really the kind of system that we're in at the moment and it is blatantly showing its weaknesses.

I'm afraid that when the pandemics is over, or contained (the poor will die, good riddance - oh, wait we need the poor to be rich...), it will be "business as usual".

History will be re-written, the sheep will follow, and the next extinction will be put under the carpet.

"Climate change is a hoax". "My profit first". "Make my bank account great again".

It will take a little more time, and will get almost unnoticed, but those who are denying it are leading the imbeciles to the brink of the cliff.

They're leading us all to the end.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Hong Kong just shut down the bars. Not a good sign.

 

[Paradox]

The excess mortality numbers for Europe just came in, and guess what?
There are currently LESS OLD PEOPLE DYING THAN DURING ANY OTHER FLU SEASON IN THE PAST YEARS.

How long will this media-propagated hysteria continue?
At which point do we start holding journalists for unsubstiated claims and outright lies accountable?

Its just getting started in Europe.

Have you been paying attention to what is happening right here in the U.S. right now?

I didnt want to do this but some people just wont get it without being hit over the head with it.

Here are cold storage trailers outside 2 hospitals in New York city to store the dead in because the morgues cant keep up.
The second one has added 2-3 more trailers to that row since the picture was taken.



And here is a trailer from about 3 days ago with body bags lining the walls. More have died since. This is ONE Trailer at ONE hospital. There are 85 -100 trailers at least at hospitals in NYC.



Do you still want to deny that this is real and just call it a media hoax?

 

[eryk2kartman]

This thing is very real but at the same time this propaganda spreads fear, and thats how it works to control people, next will be vaccination that everyone will kill to get(that will have bio-chip in it that 5g could activate and control)

very sad how the world is ruled
its very simple mechanism,
create the fear and than propose the solution for it
and dont forget - the history is written by the winners!

 

[Paradox]

IT IS NOT PROPAGANDA. IT IS REAL.
Wake up

Here are the deaths due to COVID19 reported in my county alone as reported on my county's Health Department website.

There were 84 deaths in the county so far.

Deaths reported on April 2 at 2:30 p.m. include:

1. A male in his age 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
2. A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
3. A male in his 80s with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
4. A female in her 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
5. A female in her 50s with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
6. A female in her 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
7. A male in his 60s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local nursing home and rehabilitation facility
8. A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
9. A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
10. A male in his 40s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
11. A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
12. A female in her 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
13. A female in her 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
14. A female in her 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
15. A male in his 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital

Deaths reported on April 1 at 2:30 p.m. include:

• An male in his age 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A female in her 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 60s with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An female in her 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A female in her 80s with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An female in her 50s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A female in her 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A female in her 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 90s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 80s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital

Deaths reported on March 30 at 2:30 p.m. include:

• An individual, age 80s, with underlying health conditions who died at a local adult care facility
• An individual, age 70s, with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 90s, with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 30s, with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 30s, with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 70s, with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 80s, with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 80s, with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• An individual, age 40s, who died at home.

Deaths reported on March 29 at 2:30 p.m. include:

• A male in his 60s with underlying health conditions who died at home. COVID-19 was confirmed by the Suffolk County Medical Examiner.
• A male in his 70s with underlying health conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital
• A male in his 30s with underlying medical conditions who was in mandatory isolation at a local hospital

It goes on for every day since March 18 when the first deaths were reported

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
That's some funny stuff there.
I literally laughed out loud.

I feel safer already!

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Everybody has an opinion, etc. You would think that the mathematicians who can tell us what the weather is going to be in the next century would have models that they could plug the current variables into and tell us who's on first. Actually they do! And all the models are yielding different outcomes. It gets worse! All their outcomes don't match each other or what happens the week following publishing. Oh, well, they'll be seeking funds to do more studies and make more models in universities from pole to pole and be awarded PhD's and professorships. Academe serving academia.

Models are different, assumptions are different, and the model results differ accordingly. However they all point to the fact that hundreds of thousands to millions of Americans are going to die because the leadership at the top failed in its primary responsibility to protect the people. This is a National problem that requires a coordinated National strategy to overcome. Viruses don’t observe state borders and a hot spot in one state can affect people in all surrounding states. And the idea that just because someone has a PhD invalidates their recommendations is one reason we are in this mess. I’ll proudly wave my PhD any day, so you can call me doctor.

 

[Forsoothe!]

However they all point to the fact that hundreds of thousands to millions of Americans are going to die because the leadership at the top failed in its primary responsibility to protect the people.

Bullshit. That's exactly what I'm talking about, and I'm bookmarking this post to throw in your face in the coming months.

 

[leatherback]

Bullshit. That's exactly what I'm talking about, and I'm bookmarking this post to throw in your face in the coming months.

What do you want to waive anyones face? The USA is well on its way to have seriously large numbers of victims.

 

[rockm]

The excess mortality numbers for Europe just came in, and guess what?
There are currently LESS OLD PEOPLE DYING THAN DURING ANY OTHER FLU SEASON IN THE PAST YEARS.

How long will this media-propagated hysteria continue?
At which point do we start holding journalists for unsubstiated claims and outright lies accountable?

Um, my 75 year old neighbor, and friend for the last 15 years, was just taken to the hospital by the rescue squad with double pneumonia/Covid. She was in very very bad shape, incoherent and terrified.
Her husband couldn't go with her. They also couldn't test him for the virus because they're saving the tests for patients with symptoms. I SAW ALL OF THIS. I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET. WE have 375 active cases in the county and five deaths as of yesterday. Things have picked up in the last week. They are projected to get worse.

And, all you other delusional dimwits trying to rationalize your way out of the truth, have some respect when talking about deaths. My neighbor ain't an "excess mortality" She's a friend.

And, since you cite no data to back up your cockamamie claim, your bold (but probably bogus) "European numbers" COULD be due to the fact that old people are dying more from coronavirus than the "regular" flu and aren't being counted among the flu numbers. Coronavirus is the #3 cause of death currently in the U.S. right behind heart disease.

Coronavirus Is the No. 3 Cause of Death in the U.S.

A new graph shows that 748 people per day die from COVID-19 in the U.S., compared with 1,641 cancer deaths and 1,774 heart disease fatalities.

www.newsweek.com

If you want to believe what's going on is some "media-propagated hysteria" go ahead. Darwin would be proud...

 

[Nybonsai12]

My wife's coworker, an ICU nurse died last night from COVID after recently treating an infected patient. He was in his 50's, had a wife and kids,

My mother's friend's husband passed away yesterday as well. he was in his 70’s

one of my employees, in her 60s has been sick for a week with symptoms similar to corona. Im very scared for her.

 

[Paradox]

Found out on Monday:
A co-worker in my office told us his father in law died this week from suspected COVID
A co-worker in an upstate county died this week of COVID. She was almost ready to retire.
My boss's aunt has it

Just found out an hour ago:
A co-worker in my building and his wife both have it and are in a hospital in Queens
She is reportedly recovering, we dont know what his status is. He got sick after she did.
They have a very young adopted daughter.

 

[BrianBay9]

This government's response is consistent with the Republican effort to dismiss science based discussions with ideology. In every instance over the past couple of decades they have substituted their own reality for facts. Trickle down economics? What the hell are we still trying that for? Tried. Failed. Climate change? No legitimate scientific debate that it's happening and we have few options to affect a change. Anti-vaxers? Overwhelmingly Republican. Decisions flying in the face of facts and logic. Corona virus response? Fox news lies and Trump's bullshit set us back months. I'm sick of it all.