Shut the whole damn country down!

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BackyardBonsai

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Am frustrated to keep hearing news that a bunch of stupid people can't stop enjoy life for a few weeks so we can control this stupid virus. Am curious if some of you also have this thought in your head. Why can we as a country stop everyone on its track for 4 weeks so we can somewhat get back to normal. why Trump hasn't done that. If he did that we would have already 2 to 3 weeks in. This stupid virus will not go away if you still have people going around and spread to others. Am frustrated and upset!
 
He would get criticized no matter what he did. I like his choice.

The outbreaks are specific to different areas and delegating authority is standard practice in emergency management. He has set guidelines and recommendations for governors to manage their states according to their needs. This all seems appropriate.

I have a whole set of gripes about how people are behaving as a response. Fear and ignorance make for some embarassing public behavior. I also question how our civil liberties may be in jeapordy moving forward.
 
The federal goverment should have coordinated the aquiring of equipment and supplies such as ventilators, masks etc instead of letting each state and FEMA end up in a bidding war against each other. It drove the price of things way up.

As far as individual area planning and dealing with the outbreak. Since it is effecting different areas at different times and rates, you really have to leave it up to local control that knows the state and the situation best.

Trump can shut down the country as far as borders but he cant shut down individual states because of a thing called states rights that allow for states to operate certain things with autonomy from the federal governement. That is how it should be otherwise a president playing favorites among the states or a rogue president could take retribution against states that are critical of federal policy or are a majority of the other party and didnt vote for him in the last election. However states can cooperate with each other and with the feds by adopting similar policy for consistency.
 
Captain.Bonsai said:
for governors to manage their states according to their needs. This all seems appropriate.
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It does, except for Florida allowing hundreds/thousands of idiot spring breakers on it's beaches and in it's bars, so they could come home and spread it all over their respective home states.
 
Paradox said:
The federal government should have coordinated the acquiring of equipment and supplies such as ventilators, masks etc instead of letting each state and FEMA end up in a bidding war against each other. It drove the price of things way up.
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Charging more than was charged before the emergency has a name: Profiteering. It is specifically illegal and the fines and penalties usually exceed the profit, the value of the company, and the net worth of the officers and board members involved. Profiteering is defined as increasing the gross profit or net profit via clever accounting, and/or failure to adjust the price downward due to the increases in efficiency due to increases in production, reduction in cost of materials, labor, or whatever. After the emergency is over all the prices paid for a given widget are compared and anyone higher than typical will be visited by forensic accountants who know all the angles.
 
I agree, we need a nation wide shut down. I'd even be ok with orders to stay within the bounds of our hone town except for emergencies and essential workers.
I'm tired of all the damn city dwellers coming here buying up our supplies and probably bringing the virus with them.
 
Forsoothe! said:
Charging more than was charged before the emergency has a name: Profiteering. It is specifically illegal and the fines and penalties usually exceed the profit, the value of the company, and the net worth of the officers and board members involved. Profiteering is defined as increasing the gross profit or net profit via clever accounting, and/or failure to adjust the price downward due to the increases in efficiency due to increases in production, reduction in cost of materials, labor, or whatever. After the emergency is over all the prices paid for a given widget are compared and anyone higher than typical will be visited by forensic accountants who know all the angles.
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I see you have not been paying attention to what is really happening. THis has nothing to do with profiteering although that has been happening with masks and yes those people will be held responsible. What I am talking about it the need for ventilators to save people's lives.

There are not enough ventilators in the U.S. nor are there enough companies that can make them fast enough, so the states and FEMA are going elsewhere to buy them.
These are companies in China and elsewhere that are not subject to U.S. laws. RIght now about the only place to buy ventilators are in China.
NY calls up a supplier and offers to pay 15K per ventilator, then California calls and offers 16K per, then Michigan calls and offers 17K, then FEMA calls and offers 18K because we are not coordinating amongst each other. There are not enough supply to go around so states are outbidding each other to try and get what is available now because they need them now.
FEMA should have taken the lead on this and then worked it out with the states for what they need.

Envoking the defense act is all well and good, but it takes time for company that is not set up or trained to make the things to geared up and start making them.
Ford is going to make 50,000 of them in the next 100 days or so the reports said. That doesnt help the patient in the hospital right now that needs one and there isnt one available.
New York City predicts they have enough for the next 6 days then they will have to choose who lives and who dies if they dont get more available.

I would not want to be the doctor that has to make that decision.
Pray its not you or your loved one that needs one when they are not available.
 
How easily one cedes his liberties.

Sad. Disappointing.

Keep peeking out your curtains calling the police on kids playing in the park.

Guess that Soviet culture of snitching is not so baffling after all. They were probably happy to do it.
 
Paradox said:
I see you have not been paying attention to what is really happening. THis has nothing to do with profiteering although that has been happening with masks and yes those people will be held responsible. What I am talking about it the need for ventilators to save people's lives.

There are not enough ventilators in the U.S. nor are there enough companies that can make them fast enough, so the states and FEMA are going elsewhere to buy them.
These are companies in China and elsewhere that are not subject to U.S. laws. RIght now about the only place to buy ventilators are in China.
NY calls up a supplier and offers to pay 15K per ventilator, then California calls and offers 16K per, then Michigan calls and offers 17K, then FEMA calls and offers 18K because we are not coordinating amongst each other. There are not enough supply to go around so states are outbidding each other to try and get what is available now because they need them now.
FEMA should have taken the lead on this and then worked it out with the states for what they need.

Envoking the defense act is all well and good, but it takes time for company that is not set up or trained to make the things to geared up and start making them.
Ford is going to make 50,000 of them in the next 100 days or so the reports said. That doesnt help the patient in the hospital right now that needs one and there isnt one available.
New York City predicts they have enough for the next 6 days then they will have to choose who lives and who dies if they dont get more available.

I would not want to be the doctor that has to make that decision.
Pray its not you or your loved one that needs one when they are not available.
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Purchasing agents in the various states need to act as a consortium, or cede authority to the federal purchasing agents. Trump can't just elbow his way inbetween unless he proclaims Marshal Law, pretty unlikely. The 3M masks have been in play because 3M aren't conducting themselves according to the National Production Act of 1950. Trump will make this right, and 3M will pay the piper.
 
A. Gorilla said:
How easily one cedes his liberties.

Sad. Disappointing.

Keep peeking out your curtains calling the police on kids playing in the park.

Guess that Soviet culture of snitching is not so baffling after all. They were probably happy to do it.
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Dude
We not talking about doing this for months or anything. The Chinese wouldn't shut the whole city down if they know this is just another flu. My problem is that we know what this virus can do and we still implementinh half measures protocols. This will drag it out for a much longer time. I think this will cause more damage to the economy than just shut down for a month to contain it.
 
namnhi said:
Dude
We not talking about doing this for months or anything. The Chinese wouldn't shut the whole city down if they know this is just another flu. My problem is that we know what this virus can do and we still implementinh half measures protocols. This will drag it out for a much longer time. I think this will cause more damage to the economy than just shut down for a month to contain it.
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Everybody has an opinion, etc. You would think that the mathematicians who can tell us what the weather is going to be in the next century would have models that they could plug the current variables into and tell us who's on first. Actually they do! And all the models are yielding different outcomes. It gets worse! All their outcomes don't match each other or what happens the week following publishing. Oh, well, they'll be seeking funds to do more studies and make more models in universities from pole to pole and be awarded PhD's and professorships. Academe serving academia.
 
Unfortunately, this nightmare will drag on until we have viable therapies or an effective vaccine. Extreme social distancing temporarily slows the rate of infections which in turn helps the health care system keep up with those needing hospitalization. I agree that a national “stay at home” order for anywhere from 3-6 weeks make sense to get things under control, but the virus will be part of our life experience going forward. Life will go on and states will end the lockdowns currently in place but there’s likely to be another spike in cases, though hopefully shorter with significantly less severe illness.
Those dumbass governors without the balls to make the difficult decisions will stand out like sore thumbs, either way.
 
What are we up to here? 18k?

I wouldn't mind of it kept going till it was just us, close friends and family in the end.

Around 100k?

Perfect!

Sorce
 
namnhi said:
Dude
We not talking about doing this for months or anything. The Chinese wouldn't shut the whole city down if they know this is just another flu. My problem is that we know what this virus can do and we still implementinh half measures protocols. This will drag it out for a much longer time. I think this will cause more damage to the economy than just shut down for a month to contain it.
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You haven't been listening to Kevin who is in a giant Chinese city that has restricted movement since some time in January. It ain't over.
 
BackyardBonsai said:
Why can we as a country stop everyone on its track for 4 weeks
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Total lockdown for four weeks won't work. Firstly you're assuming people will do as they are told. Secondly you can't stop people leaving their homes. They still need to leave their home to get food, to see a doctor, go to hospital, get medications. Also police, firemen, paramedics, doctors, nurses, other hospital staff all still need to work. So the virus will continue to circulate past the four week mark.

There's no quick fix.
 
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