Shore Pine- Native species extraordinaire! Share your knowledge and progress with this species.

[River's Edge]

Shore pine branches can be deceptive, the internal branch much thinner than they appear. Trees collected in certain locations have very flaky bark and pose a challenge for bending and wiring.
Small contorta can be excellent candidates for Bonsai. They can backbud very easily and needle size reduces down easily as well. My first experience with shopping was a very small one that I planted on a lava rock.
I do have one larger collected Shore Pine with a sizeable base under development.
Both are pictured below.

 

[River's Edge]

Update on this Shore Pine. Was in the shop for thinning, wiring and preparation for the growing season. Spent considerable time with needle reduction to ensure plenty of sun gets to the interior to promote density. Next steps will be to focus on creating density in the pads and reducing the needle length. As that occurs I will compact the design overall and this will create denser pads with more separation for branch definition. I am happy with the way this one is coming along.

View attachment 418728

Update on this shoreline a year later, wired and pruned back today! Considerable back budding has allowed me to wire separate pads on several branches and round out the form. The apex is the slowest as I had the fewest branches to work with initially! The view from the top shows that progress is indeed being made, even if a lot of grow out, wiring and cutback is still in the future. I thought the overview from the top would interest those wondering how this species responds to bud back. I think the basics are in place, just lots of work left in refinement,

 

[MaciekA]

Thanks for the top down view! Looks great.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for the top down view! Looks great.

It does lend a different perspective for future design. Collected trees pose challenges not usually present in developed trees. I find the best route is often the slowest. At least for myself the tree seems to take its time revealing what will work best. With this species it is amazing how quickly it can back bud and how quickly the needles will reduce back down once they are established and healthy! They are slow but steady to develop strong root balls with plenty of feeder roots. The initial stages after collection prior to heavy design work takes longer in my experience. Now that I have been working with quite a few collected shore pine I allow three to five years for acclimation and root ball development prior to major pruning or design work. in the long run it seems the most effective. After that they can be refined and look pretty good within five years, I consider ten years a short time frame for considerable progress with a collected tree. Next up this winter is a larger shoreline that has had a longer road after collection. Took several years to eradicate borers and create a better root ball. The tree is now fully healthy and ready to work. It was collected about seven years ago. Some initial work was done in 2021. Thinned a few branches and cut back to create some density. it has been allowed to grow out for the past two years. The tree is larger and sorting through the remaining branching, initially pruning and wiring for beginning pad development will likely take me a week or so. The expected front is on the back side of this view now. Dealing with borers and beetles ( bark removal ) has revealed some interesting shari to highlight the design. with daily sessions of several hours. I work slowly, particularly in the beginning stages when all the key decision making occurs. The picture below shows the change of planting angle and repot results in 2021. Will post the next stage when completed.

 

[Dan W.]

Great trees! Love the shore pines.

Pinus contorta latifolia looks to be a bit underrepresented so far though. Here's one of mine for starters. This image is from your RMBS club show this past September.

 

[Dan W.]

Oops! I'm sorry, I just read your thread title again. I read the original post and by the time I got through everything else I must have though you originally intended the thread for all p. contorta varieties.

 

[River's Edge]

Great trees! Love the shore pines.

Pinus contorta latifolia looks to be a bit underrepresented so far though. Here's one of mine for starters. This image is from your RMBS club show this past September.

View attachment 518648

Nice job with the presentation. love the moss variation and placement. Not as easy as it looks. How long have you been developing this one?
Not familiar with latifolia, Will the needles reduce down further?

 

[River's Edge]

Oops! I'm sorry, I just read your thread title again. I read the original post and by the time I got through everything else I must have though you originally intended the thread for all p. contorta varieties.

Happy to have further information shared, no worries. Nice to see that quality of collected trees represented. The nebari on your tree is amazing one can picture the natural setting for that formation. Entirely suited to a slab. Well done.

 

[Dan W.]

Nice job with the presentation. love the moss variation and placement. Not as easy as it looks. How long have you been developing this one?
Not familiar with latifolia, Will the needles reduce down further?

Thank you! The show details have become a lot of fun as I've continued to grow and learn. Of course the tree development comes first, but then all of the added little things to make them look their best in show is so enjoyable.

This tree was collected in August of 2016. It grew strong the next growing season so I styled in the fall of 2017 with Todd Schlafer. The box was nearly vertical after styling so we potted in 2018 onto this slab where it's been since.

I'm sure the needles would/will shorten over time with continued ramification. I'm not overly concerned with additional shortening methods for now as I feel they are acceptable where they are.

 

[River's Edge]

Thank you! The show details have become a lot of fun as I've continued to grow and learn. Of course the tree development comes first, but then all of the added little things to make them look their best in show is so enjoyable.

This tree was collected in August of 2016. It grew strong the next growing season so I styled in the fall of 2017 with Todd Schlafer. The box was nearly vertical after styling so we potted in 2018 onto this slab where it's been since.

I'm sure the needles would/will shorten over time with continued ramification. I'm not overly concerned with additional shortening methods for now as I feel they are acceptable where they are.

Agreed, with ramification they shorten down real quick in my experience. For watering do you do the occasional soak to ensure the core does not dry out on the slab?

 

[Dan W.]

Agreed, with ramification they shorten down real quick in my experience. For watering do you do the occasional soak to ensure the core does not dry out on the slab?

I have had to. Especially with my Lodgepoles (even in pots) for some reason. As long as I keep up with watering it hasn't been an issue. It did dry out on me one time though and no amount of watering would re-hydrate until I soaked the tree.

 

[River's Edge]

I have had to. Especially with my Lodgepoles (even in pots) for some reason. As long as I keep up with watering it hasn't been an issue. It did dry out on me one time though and no amount of watering would re-hydrate until I soaked the tree.

One of the things not commonly discussed. Particularly with slab plantings but often with older larger trunked trees that tend to be repotted less often or have been gradually potted higher over time. I think it is the leading cause of decline over time. The core dries out, dies out over time and the tree struggles. recently I repotted an older trident that the entire central core of the rootball was dead. All the feeder roots fell apart when touched, nothing live in the central core, yet the bottom of the pot and the outer sides were covered in roots. in this case less than 1/3 of the pot contained healthy root ball. It was a large tree and a large pot. After repotting I wrapped the pot in heavy plastic and filled the entire contraption with water. Let sit for 1/2 hour to ensure all the new mix tucked into the core was properly soaked. For that tree the soaking will need to be repeated occasionally due to the root formation being higher and not as flat as one would prefer. ( heavy plastic from painters drop sheet worked well. I tied a cord around the bunched plastic at the base of the tree to enclose the entire pot and base in plastic.) A friend in Vancouver does a lot of slab and tray plantings. He uses a small kids wading pool that he bought for that purpose.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Spot on Frank!

Wondering if you’ve considered ‘drilling‘ multiple holes into the shin of these trees to remedy the drying issue? (properly done)

Have been experimenting doing so for four years to multiple trees with this issue. All trees have flourished afterwards at this point. Often a couple years later another round of holes may be prudent as the new water holes fill in.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

Spot on Frank!

Wondering if you’ve considered ‘drilling‘ multiple holes into the shin of these trees to remedy the drying issue? (properly done)

Have been experimenting doing so for four years to multiple trees with this issue. All trees have flourished afterwards at this point. Often a couple years later another round of holes may be prudent as the new water holes fill in.

cheers
DSD sends

Interesting approach, I often drill holes in the root ball if very compacted to assist drainage prior to repot. Particularly if the tree is too weak or the timing is very poor for a repot. I would not consider drilling the " Shin" out of concern for disease, particularly with deciduous and maples in particular. Of course this can vary depend on how one defines "shin". For me this refers to the central solid base at the bottom of the trunk and the key root area directly beneath.
I have no doubt it would be effective short term, my concern would be the long term health of the tree with open holes within the trunk. I have more confidence that smaller roots damaged can seal and heal than open holes in the solid wood core!
Exception being thread grafts, root grafts of course as they fill the gaps quickly and heal over nicely.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Understood. Valid concerns…

Here’s the rationale… much less damage than repotting, less risk for infection.

The procedure is not to drill the hard wood, but let the long drill guide itself through the media directly underneath the trunk in the generally desired directions … then backfill with smallish media (enough to fit easily in the holes). Multiple holes as needed.

This procedure aerates the root ball in the key areas of concern.

Have drilled multiple pines, maples, crabs, redwoods, elms, azaleas, spruce, hemlocks etc,

Got this idea reinforced by both Peter Warren, who digs holes with a chopstick, @Chuah who uses a steel rod.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

I often drill holes in the root ball if very compacted to assist drainage prior to repot.

Suspect we were saying the same thing. That why I mentioned defining the Shin. I consider it a standard approach taught by most professionals.One can use a chopstick, or other suitable object including drill bits. This approach was included in initial repotting classes with Boon, Michael Hagedorn etc. A valid approach that has been passed on in the trade. The difference might be that I have always considered it a stop gap measure before a proper repot. I consider a repot to be less risky for infection, assuming that it is properly done and within appropriate time frames. However, I should mention that the techniques used for repotting can and do make a huge difference on the outcome. Carefully dealing with the roots is not the approach everyone takes,

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

... and also applied to slab plantings and trees in the pot. Given the media hasn’t entirely broken down, coupled with soji can gain a couple yrs in the slab/pot…

Best
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

It does lend a different perspective for future design. Collected trees pose challenges not usually present in developed trees. I find the best route is often the slowest. At least for myself the tree seems to take its time revealing what will work best. With this species it is amazing how quickly it can back bud and how quickly the needles will reduce back down once they are established and healthy! They are slow but steady to develop strong root balls with plenty of feeder roots. The initial stages after collection prior to heavy design work takes longer in my experience. Now that I have been working with quite a few collected shore pine I allow three to five years for acclimation and root ball development prior to major pruning or design work. in the long run it seems the most effective. After that they can be refined and look pretty good within five years, I consider ten years a short time frame for considerable progress with a collected tree. Next up this winter is a larger shoreline that has had a longer road after collection. Took several years to eradicate borers and create a better root ball. The tree is now fully healthy and ready to work. It was collected about seven years ago. Some initial work was done in 2021. Thinned a few branches and cut back to create some density. it has been allowed to grow out for the past two years. The tree is larger and sorting through the remaining branching, initially pruning and wiring for beginning pad development will likely take me a week or so. The expected front is on the back side of this view now. Dealing with borers and beetles ( bark removal ) has revealed some interesting shari to highlight the design.View attachment 518631 with daily sessions of several hours. I work slowly, particularly in the beginning stages when all the key decision making occurs. The picture below shows the change of planting angle and repot results in 2021. Will post the next stage when completed.

Not often we wish to post the ugly stages of development, but here it is. I think it is important to recognize that not every step of the way is aesthetically pleasing. Removed quite a few extraneous branches, revealing a lot of interior that requires ramification. Also a lot of weak interior buds that need strengthening. This stage has lots of branches to shorten over time and plenty of foliage to reduce back as more new buds appear in the interior. I am leaving most of the cut back until late winter early spring. Retaining foliage for additional health over the winter. So a number of the straight thicker sections will be removed. In the meantime the branches have been laid out and pad formation begun in relation to the new front. The front was chosen to highlight the natural shari and best movement of the trunk overall. This also features the upper trunk moving toward the viewer. Lots of work remaining before the tree begins to look better. Hopefully one can squint and get a glimpse of possibilities. I could have cut back a lot more but I prefer to wait. Opening up the interior and laying out the framework will set it up for the spring. I removed over 1/3 of the branching and tons of needles for wiring and selection of better locations for buyback. The tree is not really dormant, still some sap movement and branches easily shaped. Raffia will be removed prior to cutback in late winter. Do not want all the bark covered for long periods.
The second photo will show the even distribution of branching around the trunk and the open framework to begin the apex development. Closer examination should reveal some initial back budding that has occurred from previous wiring and cut back. Within two years the open framework will be substantially filled in and the various sections reduced to desirable positions throughout. Next post will be early spring after cut back, needle reduction and adjusted pads. Then wait for fall to check on progress. Oh, used a little lime sulphur on the shari for winter protection and preservation. 50/50

 

[Chuah]

Understood. Valid concerns…

Here’s the rationale… much less damage than repotting, less risk for infection.

The procedure is not to drill the hard wood, but let the long drill guide itself through the media directly underneath the trunk in the generally desired directions … then backfill with smallish media (enough to fit easily in the holes). Multiple holes as needed.

This procedure aerates the root ball in the key areas of concern.

Have drilled multiple pines, maples, crabs, redwoods, elms, azaleas, spruce, hemlocks etc,

Got this idea reinforced by both Peter Warren, who digs holes with a chopstick, @Chuah who uses a steel rod.

Cheers
DSD sends

This is the steel rod I use. The T shape handle and a tapered end make it easier to dig holes compared to just a straight rod.

 

[River's Edge]

Update on one of my future literati Shore Pines. My goal for the past two growing seasons was to strengthen the tree with free growth. So it would be able to stand firmly on its own in the new desired planting angle. While developing fuller foliage to fuel the increased root mass I would be preparing for thinning out and cutting back to create bud back and eventual compaction of the foliage. the first picture was taken in June 2020, the last two pictures show the current situation. Standing firmly on its own roots ( wire and bracing removed) and ready for fall pine maintenance. Thin out old needles and wire out branches and branchlets to encourage back budding along with judicious light pruning of apical tips not required for eventual design. Essentially reduction of extensions while leaving enough foliage to fuel back budding and interior growth closer to the trunk! This will allow for a sparser image with compact foliage as befits a literati. Approximately 3-5
years away from a more finished literati appearance with sparser foliage and small lighter pad development . Will finish fall work over the next few weeks.
View attachment 400891View attachment 400892View attachment 400893

Update on this Shore Pine, let it grow out for two yers and wired it today for the next step in development. I am reasonably comfortable with branch and pad placement. Next step lots of compaction, back budding and ramification. Will prune back more later in the winter, just prior to the growing season. Keeping extra now to help over the winter with the recent wiring and bending. Both sides showing a bit of promise and the pads provide 360 degree depth in their current positions. I think I will begin to pick out a pot for this spring. Time to ditch the Anderson flat. Will have to see how it progresses. The corner of my potting shed is a little crowded for good pictures and I did not feel like moving the vehicles to clear the back drop area.