Shore Pine- Native species extraordinaire! Share your knowledge and progress with this species.

[River's Edge]

Found the time to place this tree in a suitable shape and size. As a collected tree this root structure requires a bit deeper pot at this time. It has allowed me to expose the nebari for the first time since collection. The design and planting angle will improve with successive work. I am pleased with the progress from collection. Last time it was repotted was three years ago. I now have all the native soil removed. For this particular tree that was collected in 2018 this is the third repot. Pictures below first picture from collection, second picture from today! The pot was made by Jim Gremel, I acquired the pot when visiting Jim in 2017 before I collected this tree. The picture today was in the potting shed, not the best backdrop or lighting for photos.

 

[River's Edge]

Found the time to place this tree in a suitable shape and size. As a collected tree this root structure requires a bit deeper pot at this time. It has allowed me to expose the nebari for the first time since collection. The design and planting angle will improve with successive work. I am pleased with the progress from collection. Last time it was repotted was three years ago. I now have all the native soil removed. For this particular tree that was collected in 2018 this is the third repot. Pictures below first picture from collection, second picture from today! The pot was made by Jim Gremel, I acquired the pot when visiting Jim in 2017 before I collected this tree. The picture today was in the potting shed, not the best backdrop or lighting for photos.
View attachment 536273View attachment 536280

Took the time to update progress on this literati/bunjin style shore pine.
Clearer pictures and next steps will be compaction and refinement of pads. Feeling satisfied with progress on branch placement and new planting angle. Like the complement of the round pot. May reduce the pot size when design and refinement are further along. For the near future planning on keeping the extra depth for health reasons while still under development and recovering from bending and wiring! Still deciding on the actual front, Currently favouring this side.

 

[River's Edge]

Picture update on this Shore Pine that I wired and styled in November. Adjusted some wiring and positions of shoots during the process of photo shoot. I find the photos useful for checking position and angles. Particularly when mirroring trunk flow with primary branches. The overhead shots are very useful to ensure that one is incorporating ' 360 degrees in the overall design. Later on in development and refinement this really helps to unify the look.
Other aspects to check with an overhead photo can be how well do the pads present for proper sunlight and air movement. Are they positioned for long term health. This can also be checked visually or with a series of photos from various angles. One last aspect, it gives me a nice check on how well compaction, condensing and back budding is proceeding during development. Easy to see the progress from above when comparing earlier photos with current ones.With continued care this tree should improve nicely for pad development in the next two or three years. Starting to fill in the canopy nicely, considering the starting point.

 

[coltranem]

@River's Edge Frank. In an earlier post you mentioned cuttings back into last years growth to induce back budding. What do you look for to know when to do that?

 

[River's Edge]

@River's Edge Frank. In an earlier post you mentioned cuttings back into last years growth to induce back budding. What do you look for to know when to do that?

In a general sense first off, the overall health of the tree. if there are any issues or I have just performed other major work than I do not consider pruning for back budding purposes.
If the tree is healthy and vigorous tan I look at individual branches to determine the best spot to cut back to at that particular time. I am looking for enough substantial growth to cut back from and a suitable side shoot that is strong enough to cut back to and wire out as the new apical leader on the branch. Rough guideline for the portion cut off is in the range of four to six inches plus for better effect. With single flush pines I take a slower approach often letting the tree grow out for two seasons before cutting back to compact and induce density.
Key is pruning the main apical shoot on the branch being considered. ( more auxin removal)
Second Key is patience to ensure the shoot being cut back to is strong enough to take over as the apical leader on that branch so the branch and newer shoots continue to develop. So a side shoot that is at least two years old and in good shape.
I readily admit that my approach is not aggressive compared to others.

This would apply to regular routine, however in the first instance the branch could be shortened by almost any amount as long as it is back to a healthy shoot. The key aspect here is to always remember to retain sufficient foliage for healthy progress instead of reducing the health and setting back the progress with overly aggressive pruning. A good guideline is removing less than 1/3 overall at one time. Think about applying this on a branch by branch basis to ensure that you do not kill a key branch for design purposes.
Hope the comments make sense and are clear enough. Would be simpler to demonstrate in person than describe.
I need to add that it is important to select the shoot you cut back too in terms of pad design when getting further into refinement. Sp left or right can make quite a difference. Not important if it is in the earlier stages and several other reductions will be needed before reaching pad formation.

 

[River's Edge]

should have added this note: but time for edit expired.
When reaching the refined stage consider taper, internode length and direction when selecting the shoot to cut back to, in the early stages it is often a suitable single shoot or a set of shoots removing the central apical shoot.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

Hey there shore pine fans. I have a question about repotting these lovely local trees. I bought 3 shore pine saplings recently, they're all 3 years old, and I plan on repotting in the spring (currently they are in organic media in anderson band pots stuck into bonsai soil in pond boskets to stabilize them), I have seen it mentioned in discussion of other pines that it should be safe to bare root pines younger than 5 (I think that was specifically talking about JBP), anybody able to advise from experience if this holds true for shore pines as well?

 

[Coppersdad]

Hey there shore pine fans. I have a question about repotting these lovely local trees. I bought 3 shore pine saplings recently, they're all 3 years old, and I plan on repotting in the spring (currently they are in organic media in anderson band pots stuck into bonsai soil in pond boskets to stabilize them), I have seen it mentioned in discussion of other pines that it should be safe to bare root pines younger than 5 (I think that was specifically talking about JBP), anybody able to advise from experience if this holds true for shore pines as well?

In my hands, there's no problem bare rooting young shore pines as long as it's done at the proper time of year, re-potting season. I certainly would be careful with more mature trees and won't totally bare root older ones because of the stress on the tree. Just be very gentle in removing soil, as always, and keep the roots moist.
Start now to think of what shapes you desire for the trees. You may wire at any time of year and will get the most contorted shapes on the younger ones. I use aluminum exclusively. It's because they grow so fast when that young, it's important to watch for wire scaring.
They are a lot of fun and you have a huge number of design options with the little ones.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

In my hands, there's no problem bare rooting young shore pines as long as it's done at the proper time of year, re-potting season. I certainly would be careful with more mature trees and won't totally bare root older ones because of the stress on the tree. Just be very gentle in removing soil, as always, and keep the roots moist.
Start now to think of what shapes you desire for the trees. You may wire at any time of year and will get the most contorted shapes on the younger ones. I use aluminum exclusively. It's because they grow so fast when that young, it's important to watch for wire scaring.
They are a lot of fun and you have a huge number of design options with the little ones.

Yes, I've got aluminum wire on two of them now, one doing a kind of loop around back and turn-up to the side, and one more of a literati-style gentle lean to the side, waiting for inspiration to strike more for the third, but if I can I wouldn't mind making some pretty tight turns

 

[Coppersdad]

Yes, I've got aluminum wire on two of them now, one doing a kind of loop around back and turn-up to the side, and one more of a literati-style gentle lean to the side, waiting for inspiration to strike more for the third, but if I can I wouldn't mind making some pretty tight turns

For me, make the turn until I hear it "crack", then back off just a little. (joke of course. But not by much, because you'll never know until you try it!)

 

[River's Edge]

Hey there shore pine fans. I have a question about repotting these lovely local trees. I bought 3 shore pine saplings recently, they're all 3 years old, and I plan on repotting in the spring (currently they are in organic media in anderson band pots stuck into bonsai soil in pond boskets to stabilize them), I have seen it mentioned in discussion of other pines that it should be safe to bare root pines younger than 5 (I think that was specifically talking about JBP), anybody able to advise from experience if this holds true for shore pines as well?

Shore pines are single flush and not as vigorous as JBP. Seedlings and young stock are generally stronger than older plants. If these are collected saplings I would be more cautious due to the root structure, if you are talking about seedling nursery stock the nature of the roots should be easier to manage. Given their size and the likely size of the root structure I would question the value of bare rooting at this stage. Gently spreading some of the roots each time you repot over the next decade or so will accomplish everything needed without the added risk! You have already wired them as I understand. If you have also reduced any of the foliage I would be more cautious. My experience with shore pine is basically Yamadori and I would not subject them to the same level of work as JBP. Definitely would wait until the proper repotting season.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

For me, make the turn until I hear it "crack", then back off just a little. (joke of course. But not by much, because you'll never know until you try it!)

Well the trunks are about 2/3rds the thickness of my thumb so far, had to double up on 3 mm wire on the first one, but I do have some 5 mm out in the garage which has been acquired since I did the first tree, might have to give it a good looking at this weekend

 

[Coppersdad]

Well the trunks are about 2/3rds the thickness of my thumb so far, had to double up on 3 mm wire on the first one, but I do have some 5 mm out in the garage which has been acquired since I did the first tree, might have to give it a good looking at this weekend

I will say absolutely, Frank, @Rivers Edge has much more experience with this species than I do an you can rely on his advice! Mine are only grown from seed and I have no Yamadori or nursery stock.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

Shore pines are single flush and not as vigorous as JBP. Seedlings and young stock are generally stronger than older plants. If these are collected saplings I would be more cautious due to the root structure, if you are talking about seedling nursery stock the nature of the roots should be easier to manage. Given their size and the likely size of the root structure I would question the value of bare rooting at this stage. Gently spreading some of the roots each time you repot over the next decade or so will accomplish everything needed without the added risk! You have already wired them as I understand. If you have also reduced any of the foliage I would be more cautious. My experience with shore pine is basically Yamadori and I would not subject them to the same level of work as JBP. Definitely would wait until the proper repotting season.

Yes, they are stock from Scenic Hill Farms in Albany, Oregon. I have not removed any foliage thus far except for a couple needles I accidentally pinched while wiring. The urge to bare root them and completely repot is mostly because they are in such small nursery pots right now, so the roots are all angled downward it looks like

 

[Tahoebonsai]

I have several of these in my garden, I think the lodgepoles are very underrated and it’s the only alpine species that can live with its roots completely submerged in water

 

[River's Edge]

Yes, they are stock from Scenic Hill Farms in Albany, Oregon. I have not removed any foliage thus far except for a couple needles I accidentally pinched while wiring. The urge to bare root them and completely repot is mostly because they are in such small nursery pots right now, so the roots are all angled downward it looks like

View attachment 572216

These saplings do not look like shore pine. Pinus contorta, contorta They look like regular lodgepole pine with long internode length and long slender needles. Are you sure of your identification? The buds are very elongated and slender for shorepine as well. Shorepine have shorter straighter needles , shorter internodes and stockier red/brown buds.
When wiring young stock consider starting the initial movement sooner to avoid straight longer sections in the beginning, This also gives you more space and options for change of direction when wiring. If looking to make shaper bends use copper wire it has much more strength than aluminum and you do not have to use thick wire which makes it difficult to get proper spacing and angle across the trunk. The wire needs to support the back of the bend when pressure is applied. Therefore for tighter turns closer spacing with proper angles is very beneficial.
Consider both change of direction and additional movement. Up, Down should alternate with side to side if possible for a good starting guideline. So perhaps down with the first coil, skip a coil, then up movement, repeat. The go back and on the second coil move the bend to the right, skip a coil and move the bend to the left, repeat. What you are trying to achieve is movement that changes planes and looks interesting from any direction. Try varying the routine, begin some clockwise and some counter clockwise. Change direction completely. If making sharp bends consider wrapping the wire or the trunk for added protection.
Hope the ideas help!

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

These saplings do not look like shore pine. Pinus contorta, contorta They look like regular lodgepole pine with long internode length and long needles. Are you sure of your identification? The buds are very elongated and slender for shorepine as well.
When wiring young stock consider starting the initial movement sooner to avoid straight longer sections in the beginning, This also gives you more space and options for change of direction when wiring. If looking to make shaper bends use copper wire it has much more strength than aluminum and you do not have to use thick wire which makes it difficult to get proper spacing and angle across the trunk. The wire needs to support the back of the bend when pressure is applied. Therefore for tighter turns closer spacing with proper angles is very beneficial.
Consider both change of direction and additional movement. Up, Down should alternate with side to side if possible for a good starting guideline. So perhaps down with the first coil, skip a coil, then up movement, repeat. The go back and on the second coil move the bend to the right, skip a coil and move the bend to the left, repeat. What you are trying to achieve is movement that changes planes and looks interesting from any direction. Try varying the routine, begin some clockwise and some counter clockwise. Change direction completely. If making sharp bends consider wrapping the wire or the trunk for added protection.
Hope the ideas help!

I haven't identified them independently, purchased from this listing shown below. I did think the needles seemed long when I got them, but assumed it was a normal feature of young trees of the subspecies I wasn't aware of. Or maybe they were growing long needles in response to growing in a crowded flat or something like that.

 

[Coppersdad]

These saplings do not look like shore pine. Pinus contorta, contorta They look like regular lodgepole pine with long internode length and long slender needles. Are you sure of your identification? The buds are very elongated and slender for shorepine as well. Shorepine have shorter straighter needles , shorter internodes and stockier red/brown buds.
When wiring young stock consider starting the initial movement sooner to avoid straight longer sections in the beginning, This also gives you more space and options for change of direction when wiring. If looking to make shaper bends use copper wire it has much more strength than aluminum and you do not have to use thick wire which makes it difficult to get proper spacing and angle across the trunk. The wire needs to support the back of the bend when pressure is applied. Therefore for tighter turns closer spacing with proper angles is very beneficial.
Consider both change of direction and additional movement. Up, Down should alternate with side to side if possible for a good starting guideline. So perhaps down with the first coil, skip a coil, then up movement, repeat. The go back and on the second coil move the bend to the right, skip a coil and move the bend to the left, repeat. What you are trying to achieve is movement that changes planes and looks interesting from any direction. Try varying the routine, begin some clockwise and some counter clockwise. Change direction completely. If making sharp bends consider wrapping the wire or the trunk for added protection.
Hope the ideas help!

Heads up! They are a lot of fun to grow from seed! I happened to have lucked out and connect with Sheffield Seed and have been very please with their suggestions and the honesty with which they post the viability of the seed. Certainly, there are several other tree seed suppliers who are worth investigating.

And, growing trees from seed is always an adventure, like shooting at fecal material (cr*p shoot) . And, it's a ton of fun!

Sheffield Seed attempts to give the buyer an honest evaluation of viability and sprouting rates. It's truly and adventure! With the right organic fertilizer, you may confound and amaze your neighbors. Give it a shot! After all, all of us certainly need more trees. (If you have more than you need, you can always sell them and have money for more mature trees!)

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

Heads up! They are a lot of fun to grow from seed! I happened to have lucked out and connect with Sheffield Seed and have been very please with their suggestions and the honesty with which they post the viability of the seed. Certainly, there are several other tree seed suppliers who are worth investigating.

And, growing trees from seed is always an adventure, like shooting at fecal material (cr*p shoot) . And, it's a ton of fun!

Sheffield Seed attempts to give the buyer an honest evaluation of viability and sprouting rates. It's truly and adventure! With the right organic fertilizer, you may confound and amaze your neighbors. Give it a shot! After all, all of us certainly need more trees. (If you have more than you need, you can always sell them and have money for more mature trees!)

i have a few seeds out in the yard from a shore pine at a beach house i have access to, i pulled a few cones off earlier this fall, didn't get a whole lot, but it'll fun to see if they sprout, got some ponderosa as well

 

[Cruiser]

A recent collection. Road-side shore pine. Growing in a well-drained, sandy area of glacial deposits.
The extreme slant and old trunk injury are from getting run over. Diameter at base is 5”. Small branches and sprouts low on the trunk provide good options for the future. Bark is coming along thick and blocky.
Container is 46”x 22”. Substrate mostly pumice with some df bark.