Shore Pine- Native species extraordinaire! Share your knowledge and progress with this species.

[ghues]

I’ll try to add a little bit more clarity on my previous post on needle length reduction. @River's Edge has detailed eloquently the way he has been successful, I also follow the sequences he does with the exception of reducing the amount of water during the early flush on my more refined Shore Pine trees.....doesn’t always work as sometimes Mother Nature provides unlimited amount of rainfall during our springs and summers.

One of the reasons I started experimenting with monitoring and limiting the amount of water my more refined Trees received, was due to the Lammas growth (additional growth from the original spring flush) that happened when I didn’t hold off on the water. This second Lammas growth on single flush species can be common given the right circumstances. It does increase the length of the needles but can weaken the tree if not closely monitored and provided with due care.
Case in point - here is a young Shore Pine (very early stages of development) where I didn’t monitor the amount of water it got, fertilizing it weakly, weekly.....the first spring flush had set bud.......with the heat wave we are experiencing recently the buds broke and it is flushing again and I’m getting lots of back budding also. Not worried about the health of this one as it’s in a much larger grow box and I want it to beef up.
Young Shore-pine which came in the duff of a Yamadori collected in 2016. Planted in a 2” drill holed piece of granite.

Here is the Lammas growth and back budding.

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

My approach is different. I believe the modern techniques for inducing back budding and reducing needle length are the same for all pines and work well with Shore Pine. This is consistent with my experience and training

The key is to create a healthy vigorous tree before applying the techniques. If one is experiencing issues with water retention from natural rain or otherwise it is best to adjust the substrate to suit your conditions. Excess water does not create long needles but it does create health issues that can be avoided. Here in the PNW it is avoidable with free draining substrates that do not retain a lot of moisture in the pot.

Back budding is induced through cutting the branch back beyond the base of the candle into the existing last years needles or further back to an existing side shoot, branch or candle that is strong enough to keep the branch alive. This cut back in a healthy tree causes a strong response of new back buds closer to the interior. The stronger the branch and the further the cut back, the greater the response.

Pinching Candles, or shortening candles by cutting the new candle primarily produces buds at the point where the candle is pinched or cut and a short distance from that point. It is used in refinement to create bifurcation or new buds but still maintain the existing shape. This approach is for refinement purposes not development.

Needle reduction in size comes naturally when the number of candles and shoots are increased through successive years of back budding caused by cut back techniques coupled with wiring the branches open and exposing the interior to the sun.

As I explain to my students, the needles will naturally grow longer when the tree is first improved in vigour and health, but as the tree produces more and more shoots, the needles naturally reduce in size. So this is not a cause for concern when a collected tree begins to produce longer needles. The energy produced by the tree is divided amongst hundreds more shoots. Further in refinement the balancing of needle pairs can help to distribute energy more evenly if fewer needles are left on strong shoots and more pairs of needles are left on weaker shoots.

There are also natural factors at work with younger trees responding better than older trees, younger branches back budding more readily than older branches etc.
However the key concept is retain a vigorous tree in order to get a strong response during development, once you have the interior growth and an excess of shoots than you can naturally reduce the needle length and begin the refinement stage.

To illustrate my comments I have included four pictures.
1. A shore pine in June 2020 showing the number of shoots and density of foliage!
2. Same shore pine one year later after applying the above concepts. Full continuous water, fertilizer, branches wired out and cut back. No candle pinching or reduction. Except through cut back beyond candles into older growth or up to existing shoots or side branches. This compacts design as well as inducing back budding.
3. Photo to show the density of shoots and needles created by the above in comparison to what is seen in previous years pictures!
4. Needle length comparison. longer pair is from last years growth, shorter pair from this years growth. The difference will be best judged at the end of this season but my experience tells me the overall needle length will reduce by half just on the basis of the increase in number of shoots caused from last years back budding.

I fully understand that the tradition way is to weaken the plant with less water, less fertilizer or smaller pot. Or keep it root bound for longer periods of time.
What all of those steps do is create a weaker tree which can result in poorer growth, but will not produce a better response to Bonsai techniques applied to induce back budding. The best approach I believe is grow out and cut back, keep the tree vigorous until refinement beckons and then maintain strong health even in refinement. Use pruning and decandling, needle pair reduction to maintain shape and needle length. And this is a good time to apply fertilizer for health rather than growth by adjusting the type of fertilizer, the amounts and timing of its application.

Likely larvae hatching within the candle and eating their way out. Not sure which insect it would be in your specific location though! best to ask local sources.

As someone who has most of their pines in the development stage, this is incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share and frame the approach concisely.

 

[River's Edge]

As someone who has most of their pines in the development stage, this is incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share and frame the approach concisely.

Thank you, and you are welcome. I found it difficult to synthesize the various approaches from traditional to modern. A lot of the reference material mentions techniques but does not link them to sequence or developmental stages as clearly as is needed. My experience has been that most of the information applies to the end refinement stage . This is due to the fact that in Japan, masters or teachers typically work with carefully selected material that was developed by others. The development is left to specialized nurseries. I believe this has resulted in the focus of instruction being on refinement of advanced material. Over the last twenty years we are starting to see more information and focus on development stages and application to North American native species. I for one appreciate this direction.

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

Thank you, and you are welcome. I found it difficult to synthesize the various approaches from traditional to modern. A lot of the reference material mentions techniques but does not link them to sequence or developmental stages as clearly as is needed. My experience has been that most of the information applies to the end refinement stage . This is due to the fact that in Japan, masters or teachers typically work with carefully selected material that was developed by others. The development is left to specialized nurseries. I believe this has resulted in the focus of instruction being on refinement of advanced material. Over the last twenty years we are starting to see more information and focus on development stages and application to North American native species. I for one appreciate this direction.

And you are a part of that missing link - I have found the same re: available education. Even via YouTube, which I suppose is just parroted from those same sources - you aren’t able to find much on development. So thank you again - I will incorporate on my native jack pine, and a few collected native pinus resinosa here as well. Not near the candidate that the shore pine seems to be, but I’ve got a good 30 years to try!

 

[River's Edge]

I’ll try to add a little bit more clarity on my previous post on needle length reduction. @River's Edge has detailed eloquently the way he has been successful, I also follow the sequences he does with the exception of reducing the amount of water during the early flush on my more refined Shore Pine trees.....doesn’t always work as sometimes Mother Nature provides unlimited amount of rainfall during our springs and summers.

One of the reasons I started experimenting with monitoring and limiting the amount of water my more refined Trees received, was due to the Lammas growth (additional growth from the original spring flush) that happened when I didn’t hold off on the water. This second Lammas growth on single flush species can be common given the right circumstances. It does increase the length of the needles but can weaken the tree if not closely monitored and provided with due care.
Case in point - here is a young Shore Pine (very early stages of development) where I didn’t monitor the amount of water it got, fertilizing it weakly, weekly.....the first spring flush had set bud.......with the heat wave we are experiencing recently the buds broke and it is flushing again and I’m getting lots of back budding also. Not worried about the health of this one as it’s in a much larger grow box and I want it to beef up.
Young Shore-pine which came in the duff of a Yamadori collected in 2016. Planted in a 2” drill holed piece of granite.
View attachment 382108
Here is the Lammas growth and back budding.
View attachment 382110

I was interested in your comments so looked up the research noted by BC Forest Services. Peters 1969. he noted that Lammas growth was particularly prevalent in younger trees and often declined with age. The other notation was with respect to the specific cause being periods of less rainfall in the early growing season followed by heavy rainfall later in the early summer. makes me think the issue is lack of normal levels of moisture followed by excessive levels later in the season. The weakness you mention is connected with the late flush and not being fully hardened off prior to dormancy!
This raises a question in my mind with respect to restricting moisture in the first place? I am wondering if maybe it is better to maintain consistent levels throughout. I suspect we are both doing that by different methods. Me by limiting the substrate so it cannot hold excess moisture and you monitoring the watering more carefully with a bit more organic and retentive soil mix.

And you are a part of that missing link - I have found the same re: available education. Even via YouTube, which I suppose is just parroted from those same sources - you aren’t able to find much on development. So thank you again - I will incorporate on my native jack pine, and a few collected native pinus resinosa here as well. Not near the candidate that the shore pine seems to be, but I’ve got a good 30 years to try!

Closely related, the results will surprise you with due care and patience.

 

[MaciekA]

I was interested in your comments so looked up the research noted by BC Forest Services. Peters 1969. he noted that Lammas growth was particularly prevalent in younger trees and often declined with age. The other notation was with respect to the specific cause being periods of less rainfall in the early growing season followed by heavy rainfall later in the early summer. makes me think the issue is lack of normal levels of moisture followed by excessive levels later in the season. The weakness you mention is connected with the late flush and not being fully hardened off prior to dormancy!
This raises a question in my mind with respect to restricting moisture in the first place? I am wondering if maybe it is better to maintain consistent levels throughout. I suspect we are both doing that by different methods. Me by limiting the substrate so it cannot hold excess moisture and you monitoring the watering more carefully with a bit more organic and retentive soil mix.

Closely related, the results will surprise you with due care and patience.

From what I've experienced, this type of growth tends to happen on (in bonsai terms) very vigorous shoots. If this is the case, wouldn't you say that the pine is underramified somewhere (globally or locally), or perhaps the root system is underconstrained relative to the goal ("underconstrained" here assuming the goal is shortening needles as soon as possible)? If the roots have an outsized water uptake surface area relative to transpirational surface area in the needles, and they're getting water, then the needles will want to get bigger. But why underconstrain (oversize) the water uptake surface area if the goal is already refinement?

My take -- and if I'm reading you right, possibly your's as well -- is that if a pine has the capacity to push out oversized needles or lemmas growth, then either the limbs need more ramification, or the root system volume may need to be constrained, or a combination of both.

 

[River's Edge]

From what I've experienced, this type of growth tends to happen on (in bonsai terms) very vigorous shoots. If this is the case, wouldn't you say that the pine is underramified somewhere (globally or locally), or perhaps the root system is underconstrained relative to the goal ("underconstrained" here assuming the goal is shortening needles as soon as possible)? If the roots have an outsized water uptake surface area relative to transpirational surface area in the needles, and they're getting water, then the needles will want to get bigger. But why underconstrain (oversize) the water uptake surface area if the goal is already refinement?

My take -- and if I'm reading you right, possibly your's as well -- is that if a pine has the capacity to push out oversized needles or lemmas growth, then either the limbs need more ramification, or the root system volume may need to be constrained, or a combination of both.

Simply restating the research which identified the possible cause of Lammas growth due to inconsistent moisture levels in the environment. Typically a relatively dry early growing season followed by a higher than normal rainfall period.


The key becomes management of the variables for the desired outcome. From my experience focusing on one variable is less effective than the combination of balancing water, fertilizer, growth, cutback, wiring and exposure to sun. All within appropriate time frames for best results. Further needle pair reduction results in smaller buds and smaller shoots
I know you can restrict growth with lack of moisture, lack of fertilizer, restraining pot size or delaying repotting but this is not the direction I choose for refinement purposes. I prefer to keep the plant very healthy and manage the growth through increasing the buds, shoots, density of the new foliage.
Shore pines in natural growth patterns have short needles, they get even shorter when the density of buds and shoots are increased. They get longer if the health is improved but the very little back budding occurs to increase shoot density. The key being taking the appropriate steps to induce back budding and increase the shoot density.
Refining the root mass contributes to allowing for healthier growth in a smaller container, so the purpose is to maintain a healthier tree rather than restrict growth. This could occur if the soil conditions are poor and the size of the container smaller than required for the root ball development at a particular stage.
Healthy Bonsai require foliage and root replacement continuously throughout their life in a pot. I prefer the approach that provides a larger amount of smaller foliage and a larger amount of smaller roots.
The constraining aspect for me is in the editing of buds, shoots, reduction of needle pairs, removal of needles, pruning of branches and roots as required.
Other constraints are basically the adjustment of timing for pruning, decandling, pinching or fertilizing dependant on the stage of development or refinement and the species.
I try to keep substrate free draining and water supply consistent at all times for all my trees. Water when needed, but free draining so no excess ever accumulates. This prevents issue when other help with the watering or heavier rainfall occurs. Essentially a drier mix of inorganic components. The trade off is more watering required and heavier use of organic fertilizer. My choice.

 

[ghues]

A before and after...... thinning to induce some more back budding. The bottom tuft is weak and I’m not sure it adds anything so it may have to go.

 

[ghues]

This one is starting to take shape.

 

[Potawatomi13]

A before and after...... thinning to induce some more back budding. The bottom tuft is weak and I’m not sure it adds anything so it may have to go.

Bottom branch could be ground hugging secondary trunk. Likely personally would use, not lose this one unique to this tree. Tree is literati so suggest to reduce weight of top foliage and not overly worry about adding ramification unless genuinely adding to Literati image of tree. Unbalance/assymmetry, sparseness very desirable. Would love to work this tree.

 

[a0kalittlema0n]

I haven't read the referred-to studies yet, but am curious what specific issues (biotic? abiotic?) led them to conclude that shore pine genetics (or even lodgepole genetics) are so hyper-constricted to narrow regional/elevational bands, when at the same time, the species overall is widely distributed and is simultaneously famous for superb drought tolerance and soggy bog tolerance. I wonder if what they were really comparing was soil conditions. In some ways, it feels like bonsai collectors "know" (anecdotally) that we can grow shore pines "off site" (as the document refers to it) fairly easily, as long as the root system is taken care of. They don't seem to mind arctic blasts. They look at a brutally hot heat wave and ask for more sun.

I have found that general horticultural knowledge operates under the assumption that trees are planted in the ground (crazy, I know), and a lot of times that is a severely limiting factor. I live in an area (Mojave Desert) where it is widely perceived that tons of trees won't grow, but one of the main restrictors of trees is pH and soil compaction among other things, when people assume it is too hot. Bald Cypress are a perfect example of a tree that grows just fine here, but 99/100 people would argue that it won't.

I briefly scanned the study by Sorensen, and it seems that these studies are trying to determine suggestions and restrictions on seed collection and transfer, and the ability of a seedling to adapt to the new location. A part of the Stoneman study states:

Stoneman's sampling was concentrated in seed zones 711 and the upper one-third of 702 with lighter sampling for another 15 to 30 kilometers north, west, and south. He measured growth and growth rhythm over 2 years, but also evaluated susceptibility to early autumn freeze damage. Growth potential and early autumn freezing injury were negatively correlated. Elevation of seed source had the greatest influence on genetic differentiation. Geographic effects independent of elevation were significant, but explained less of the variation in regression models than did elevation.

It only makes sense to me that seed source would greatly influence and restrict a transplantation just as taking someone from Greenland to Southern Texas would be quite a shock to the body. IMO this doesn't disqualify them from being able to survive with pampering and proper care (just throw some sunscreen on ;P). My major worry has been a lack of dormancy being a potential long term problem for sierra lodgepole (murrayana) in a location where a shore pine would thrive.

Does anyone have experience in purchasing shore pine or contorta latifolia/murrayana and moving it to a supposedly inhabitable location?

 

[River's Edge]

Update on one of my future literati Shore Pines. My goal for the past two growing seasons was to strengthen the tree with free growth. So it would be able to stand firmly on its own in the new desired planting angle. While developing fuller foliage to fuel the increased root mass I would be preparing for thinning out and cutting back to create bud back and eventual compaction of the foliage. the first picture was taken in June 2020, the last two pictures show the current situation. Standing firmly on its own roots ( wire and bracing removed) and ready for fall pine maintenance. Thin out old needles and wire out branches and branchlets to encourage back budding along with judicious light pruning of apical tips not required for eventual design. Essentially reduction of extensions while leaving enough foliage to fuel back budding and interior growth closer to the trunk! This will allow for a sparser image with compact foliage as befits a literati. Approximately 3-5
years away from a more finished literati appearance with sparser foliage and small lighter pad development . Will finish fall work over the next few weeks.

 

[ghues]

A before and after...... thinning to induce some more back budding. The bottom tuft is weak and I’m not sure it adds anything so it may have to go.

Headed into winter….still keeping the lowest branch.

 

[ghues]

This one is starting to take shape.

Here it is going into winter.

 

[River's Edge]

I think bringing the foliage higher up has improved the overall image. What further changes do you have in mind?

 

[River's Edge]

Literati , some key points, slender trunk unexpected change of direction, lighter in foliage!
I often take the time to consider options and hate removing branches unless I am certain it is an improvement. Even then I wait a bit, it is difficult to glue it back on.
In this case a thick branch with little taper is the question mark, as much as I might appreciate some foliage at that level of the design. Perhaps I will opt for a drop branch on the right to further the flow to the right but break the continuity of the apex and add some tension to the design. Just some thoughts, easier to experiment with pictures!

 

[0soyoung]

Just thinking 'out loud' with you

 

[River's Edge]

one missing!

 

[River's Edge]

Just thinking 'out loud' with you

View attachment 405313 View attachment 405314 View attachment 405319

All three of your pictured options keep the offending branch.

 

[ghues]

I think bringing the foliage higher up has improved the overall image. What further changes do you have in mind?

The root mass still needs to strengthen so was just planning on removing needles to allow light into the back buds that have developed, some wiring.