Self critique

[TN_Jim]

After reading all of this and having experienced most of it myself there are two things you HAVE TO DO: You have to stop being so self deprecating and you have to stop punishing yourself by denying quality bonsai to yourself. It seems to me that in your mind self critiquing is self condemnation, which should not be confused with looking for improvement. You will never get anywhere in bonsai if you refuse to grow. My father whom I loved very much was at the same time abusive. After he died I found out why he was the way he was, but for most of my life nothing I did was good enough for his approval. When your experience in life is like that it is very difficult to dig out from under that mountain of someone else's self-disdane transfered on to you. You have to look to the good things in life and if there is anything that is worthy of your self deprecation make sure they are themselves not just an excuse to keep from succeeding.

Amen, thank you Vance

 

[amcoffeegirl]

After reading all of this and having experienced most of it myself there are two things you HAVE TO DO: You have to stop being so self deprecating and you have to stop punishing yourself by denying quality bonsai to yourself. It seems to me that in your mind self critiquing is self condemnation, which should not be confused with looking for improvement. You will never get anywhere in bonsai if you refuse to grow. My father whom I loved very much was at the same time abusive. After he died I found out why he was the way he was, but for most of my life nothing I did was good enough for his approval. When your experience in life is like that it is very difficult to dig out from under that mountain of someone else's self-disdane transfered on to you. You have to look to the good things in life and if there is anything that is worthy of your self deprecation make sure they are themselves not just an excuse to keep from succeeding.

It's not really the case though. I am just realizing once again that what I have created and what I want to create are two different things. I have purchased a couple nicer trees this year and now I'm bored with my pencil thin straight sticks.
I still like my root cuttings though.
When I started coming here I was afraid to wire a tree. For 5 years I didn't wire.
I am on a better path now it just took forever.

 

[leatherback]

I am on a better path now it just took forever.

What I like to do is look back at my pictures of my trees in the first year. Then follow them through time. I can see now how much more I know. How much more my hands know. You see the growth in the trees you make. Some go very fast (There was a dutch guy on here who within a year started making show-quality pieces) and some go very slow (As some say: They have been in their first year of bonsai for 30 years). And most normal people are in between. Slow but steady increase in skills and knowledge. You might find that some of these pencil sticks are actually fancy 4-coloured pencils compared to the boring 2B pencils you started out with.

 

[grouper52]

I agree, FB is not the place to go unless you want to be hammered into the ground by people who don't know anything and don't know they don't know; but will scream at the top of their virtual lungs that you are an idiot--at best and that you should do what they demand you do. FB is the sanctuary of those who are legends in their own minds, where fantasy quasi-esoteric reasoning is the rule of the day.

I was a board-certified shrink before I retired, and one of the most frequent nuggets of advice I would offer to my patients in recent years was to recommend they consider staying off Facebook if it ever came up in their talk. They often told me later how relieved they felt once they had done so. One has only to give cursory consideration to Mark Zuckerberg as a person to realise nothing good will come of anyone's association with Facebook.

 

[Bananaman]

Or this forum for that matter. It's full of " those who are legends in their own minds, where fantasy quasi-esoteric reasoning is the rule of the day."

As soon as you open the dialog from two people conversing to three people conversing, there is huge potential for trouble. Imagine all the trouble that can happen at a place like this when everyone piles on. And it does!!!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I was a board-certified shrink before I retired, and one of the most frequent nuggets of advice I would offer to my patients in recent years was to recommend they consider staying off Facebook if it ever came up in their talk. They often told me later how relieved they felt once they had done so. One has only to give cursory consideration to Mark Zuckerberg as a person to realise nothing good will come of anyone's association with Facebook.

I actually like FB and I am the boss of my page. I'm the admin and I don't allow nonsense. I use it for bonsai stuff mostly.
And to keep in touch with family and friends that I don't see. I don't keep anyone on there that causes any heartache for me. No one that I work with for sure. I post what I want and I don't censor myself at all. I have seen and met a lot of fantastic things bonsai related through FB. The bonsai community does pull together often and I love that.

 

[Bananaman]

I actually like FB and I am the boss of my page. I'm the admin and I don't allow nonsense. I use it for bonsai stuff mostly.
And to keep in touch with family and friends that I don't see. I don't keep anyone on there that causes any heartache for me. No one that I work with for sure. I post what I want and I don't censor myself at all. I have seen and met a lot of fantastic things bonsai related through FB. The bonsai community does pull together often and I love that.

I think they are talking about the public groups. Enter at your own risk.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I think they are talking about the public groups. Enter at your own risk.

Got it

 

[grouper52]

I actually like FB and I am the boss of my page. I'm the admin and I don't allow nonsense. I use it for bonsai stuff mostly.
And to keep in touch with family and friends that I don't see. I don't keep anyone on there that causes any heartache for me. No one that I work with for sure. I post what I want and I don't censor myself at all. I have seen and met a lot of fantastic things bonsai related through FB. The bonsai community does pull together often and I love that.

You, and obviously a great, great many other people like Facebook, and may use it properly. I have no problem with that, but I personally have never understood its appeal, being someone who - with the exception of this site - prefer actual face-to-face interactions and relationships with people, or letter writing if distant - rather than digital or even phone interactions. In my practice, although I mostly treated folks with serious brain-related mental illnesses that required meds and TMS and such, I also kept up my thorough grounding and experience with psychotherapy/talk-therapy for a smaller number of people who wanted and could make use of that modality, and those were mostly the ones where I gave the advice, when it seemed appropriate, to simply stop or at least curtail their exposure to that potentially noxious element in their life: and when I did make that suggestion it was almost always beneficial, and they thanked me for the suggestion. Many such people, of course, had poor boundaries, low self-esteem and such, which made Facebook a toxic environment for them. Many were also prone to addictions - and of course Facebook has, under its leadership, extensively and systematically studied and put into practice a structure that takes advantage of any addictive tendencies a person's brain is prone to, such that many of my patients found it very, very difficult to give it up or modulate its use even once they realised its toxic effect on their life, and some actually suffered classic physiological and psychological withdrawal symptoms for a while after they did. There are a number of quite well-written and well-considered articles in the lay press that substantiate all this soundly, in my opinion, and there is also the rather startling testimony of Heir Zuckerberg before congress recently. All of which, I think, relates to the impetus behind this thread's author's reaction and "Self" critique, which I believe is unfortunately a mere reaction to the critique of others on FB as often as not.

 

[Maloghurst]

That means your growing. There is a process to learning anything. Sport, skill, art.
The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know! Then it’s disheartening when you realize the level of skill some bonsai artist have. But then you have another AHA moment and realize you’ve gained another level!
I suggest taking a look at at some old pictures of your previous bonsai that at the time you were probably proud of! Then you can see the progress you’ve made.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

You, and obviously a great, great many other people like Facebook, and may use it properly. I have no problem with that, but I personally have never understood its appeal, being someone who - with the exception of this site - prefer actual face-to-face interactions and relationships with people, or letter writing if distant - rather than digital or even phone interactions. In my practice, although I mostly treated folks with serious brain-related mental illnesses that required meds and TMS and such, I also kept up my thorough grounding and experience with psychotherapy/talk-therapy for a smaller number of people who wanted and could make use of that modality, and those were mostly the ones where I gave the advice, when it seemed appropriate, to simply stop or at least curtail their exposure to that potentially noxious element in their life: and when I did make that suggestion it was almost always beneficial, and they thanked me for the suggestion. Many such people, of course, had poor boundaries, low self-esteem and such, which made Facebook a toxic environment for them. Many were also prone to addictions - and of course Facebook has, under its leadership, extensively and systematically studied and put into practice a structure that takes advantage of any addictive tendencies a person's brain is prone to, such that many of my patients found it very, very difficult to give it up or modulate its use even once they realised its toxic effect on their life, and some actually suffered classic physiological and psychological withdrawal symptoms for a while after they did. There are a number of quite well-written and well-considered articles in the lay press that substantiate all this soundly, in my opinion, and there is also the rather startling testimony of Heir Zuckerberg before congress recently. All of which, I think, relates to the impetus behind this thread's author's reaction and "Self" critique, which I believe is unfortunately a mere reaction to the critique of others on FB as often as not.

If you think I have low self esteem you'd be wrong. I was only critiquing my bonsai trees- not even my own skills at bonsai just my trees in their current state.
I am a very passionate person and I do everything in my life with my whole heart.
looking internally at how I feel about my trees was a needed reflection to proceed to the next level. I welcomed the process.
I love learning and if I want to be better at any skill it does take a personal evaluation at some point. I am terrible at painting too but I still enjoy it. I'm sure I am damaged in some ways but dammit I still love myself. Lol

 

[Bananaman]

damaged in some ways but dammit I still love myself. Lol

That definately sounds like something I would say. You tell it

 

[amcoffeegirl]

That definately sounds like something I would say. You tell it

Lol
Everyone is damaged somehow.
I had to google the word impetus. You are the reason I did the self critique and I'm still happy I did it.
My trees are happy too. Thanks for advising me to dig deeper and go harder. It is worth it to view things with a critical eye.
Taking pics did help and you're right it does help you to see every leaf that is out of place.
I know I have what it takes to see a good tree.
Now I have to apply it and grow fatter trunks before building branches. It's getting easier.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Well there they all are. Still a full house after eliminating 7 of the lesser projects. I started 2 new projects and made 2 new purchases.
I look forward to focusing on more heavy growth next spring. They will go outside from now on. The last month I put half outside and got an explosion of new growth.
I worked on those today and will put some back outside until temps drop.

 

[SizeXtraMedium]

Well there they all are. Still a full house after eliminating 7 of the lesser projects. I started 2 new projects and made 2 new purchases.
I look forward to focusing on more heavy growth next spring. They will go outside from now on. The last month I put half outside and got an explosion of new growth.
I worked on those today and will put some back outside until temps drop.View attachment 208429

Nice collection! There's certainly a few in there i'd be proud to own

 

[amcoffeegirl]

 

[tree3]

...Growth is long and leggy. Branches have not been wired.

Bonsai trees do not necessarily have to be wired. The Lingnan Penjing artists do not use much wiring, if any. One of the best examples of this method I think comes from Nigel Saunders who has a popular YouTube channel. All the bonsai pine trees which are commonly wired, he grows without wiring. Although wiring is definitely the most popular and traditional method, I suppose most people will have their own reasons for either wiring a tree or not, and all to be respected just the same, but don't let that get you down. I have a link about this style:
https://swindon-bonsai.co.uk/2016/01/05/the-art-of-lingnan-penjing-bonsai/

 

[eb84327]

i read this thread from the begging and i know it was awhile ago but i wanted to comment: your collection looks good. Many of my trees i have, i too bought from some one else already refined. I like to acknowledge whom i bought my trees from but after keeping them for a year or more they are mine and i think you should feel the same. Its hard to keep trees like this alive and we restyle and trim them using our artistic vision. I like having some refined trees that way i do not feel rushed to do anything to my trees that i have started. i just picked up my first willow leaf ficus from schley!! He has great stock.

give yourself some credit. you deserve it.

 

[Cajunrider]

After working on several trees and taking pics I realized that none of the trees that I have created are worthy to be called bonsai. Even the trees I have purchased from others I have not maintained well. Growth is long and leggy. Branches have not been wired.
Many trees are still good but I cannot post them as my own work. My best trees were not created by me- they are not my work.
This exercise just made me want to throw away all of them to be honest.

For me I look at it differently. I don't quite care whether the trees I have created are worthy to be called bonsai by anyone. I do what I can with the time I have and enjoy the process. The knowledge I've gained alone is sufficient for me. The rest are lagniappes.

 

[Paolo]

What lovely supportive comments... What a lovely site.....
All that matters is that you enjoy your hobby.. What others think is of no concern....
Take it from an old boy from England.. Just do it for you... Relax and enjoy...
Happy Friday (Here in England)... Enjoy your ? 's