Seiju!

[coh]

Dig it up in 10-20 years.

 

[coh]

In the meantime, buy another piece of material that looks more like the kind of tree you are aiming for. Get pictures.

 

[M. Frary]

What do you suggest I do?

Or like this one that was sold on bonsaiwest.com:
View attachment 77630

First section was grown out then chopped where the first branch is. Then the next section grown to thickness and chopped. Then grown and chopped again.
If you want to wire movement into branches do it early. It is very easy to break the thicker branches off because they are a little brittle. They lend themselves to clip and grow methods wonderfully.

 

[discusmike]

If it were mine I'd put it in the ground for s few years and let mother nature thicken it up,get a strong root system,then chop,and grow.

 

[JoeR]

First section was grown out then chopped where the first branch is. Then the next section grown to thickness and chopped. Then grown and chopped again.
If you want to wire movement into branches do it early. It is very easy to break the thicker branches off because they are a little brittle. They lend themselves to clip and grow methods wonderfully.

No offense but I understand how to chop and grow for taper and have for a while now. I was more of asking his opinion because it seemed he didnt think I shoukd do this because of the time it would take.

However I didnt know they took to clip and grow better than wiring so thanks for that info.

 

[Smoke]

I didn't say that at all. My reference for time was just an informational idea on the amount of time one should expect to achieve what you posted as a desire. I don't have twenty years to get that point. Of course ground growing will achieve things faster, but ground growing also creates new problems that will prevent you from putting that small tree you created into the appropriate pot. fast ground growth makes huge ground base. Huge ground base does not go into shohin pot!

 

[Smoke]

As I write this, I have a question. I have read time and time again about the wonderful material of large Seiju elms at Evergreen Garden Works. I would be most humbled for anyone here that has partaken of the huge price for those elms and can show a good picture of a show ready tree from one of those trees from that nursery.

 

[erb.75]

....and probably over a period of 10 years, not counting the years it took to get the trunk to the size of the first chop. So maybe 20 years to this point???

ya, those trees joe is posting would definitely take 10-20 years depending on what they started from. If they started as a straight trunk like his, 10ish years I'd guess.

Bonsai takes soooo long. I won't buy a tree without a good trunk with movement anymore. I'd rather pay $150 for a really nice trunk and primary branches than buy 10 $15 trees and wait 10 years for them to look good

 

[erb.75]

wow evergreen garden network's seiju's are expensive! I don't know I'd spend that much on a tree that wasn't show ready.

 

[JoeR]

As I write this, I have a question. I have read time and time again about the wonderful material of large Seiju elms at Evergreen Garden Works. I would be most humbled for anyone here that has partaken of the huge price for those elms and can show a good picture of a show ready tree from one of those trees from that nursery.

Someone here does, I have to find the thread. Its a recent one about squishy seiju elm bark.

Edit... Oh show ready, idk then..

 

[JoeR]

ya, those trees joe is posting would definitely take 10-20 years depending on what they started from. If they started as a straight trunk like his, 10ish years I'd guess.

Bonsai takes soooo long. I won't buy a tree without a good trunk with movement anymore. I'd rather pay $150 for a really nice trunk and primary branches than buy 10 $15 trees and wait 10 years for them to look good

If you know of a place where you can get really nice trunks and primary branches for $150, let me know.

 

[JoeR]

In the meantime, buy another piece of material that looks more like the kind of tree you are aiming for. Get pictures.

Skipped your posts.

I would have likely bought the one on bonsaiwest but it was sold by the time I saw it and they havent got any in since then.

 

[erb.75]

I bought a really nice yatsubusa from Ken's world of bonsai. he has very nice elms. People will ALWAYS charge 10x the price online vs. if you show up to their nursery. Just FYI!

attached is one I purchased in November. Nebari is acceptable but not stellar. The rest is stellar.

 

[erb.75]

i won't say the actual price, but it definitely wasn't near $700, lol

 

[M. Frary]

I've seen Kens elm stumps before. He has some good ones.

 

[johng]

The rest is stellar.

....to be a newb again...everything looks so wonderful! If you are still doing bonsai in five years I suspect you will have a very different appreciation for the quality of trees.

Joe...to achieve the design you want I would do this....
1. Plant the tree in the ground...place the trunk at a 45 degree angle to the ground...at the size it is now making the roots work shouldn't be an issue.
2. At the end of this growing season, or early spring, select one branch that grows up and perpendicular from the main trunk. Let that branch develop as a new leader all of next year....don't worry about any of the other branches...prune to keep them small and avoid large scars on the trunk later.
3. At the end of the second growing season choose a branch for the next segment of trunk....leaving the second sacrifice section to continue growing for a third growing season. Remove unneeded branches but realize that there is a correlation between the number of leaves and vigorous growth.
3a. Use a shovel or saw to cut about a 3-4" radius around the trunk....prop up the cut off pieces of roots to make root cutting...you may need to prune some leaves at this point...timing on this should be Mid to late August.
4. In our climate I would chop where needed around August of third growing season...this will leave enough time for new foliage to develop and harden off before winter
5. Dig and pot, not bonsai pot, beginning of season four....prune, prune, prune to begin creating branches and ramification. For a small tree like this there is little need for sacrifice branches....just start pruning and developing and the branches will thicken as they ramify...it could easily take 2-3 seasons to get really good ramification.

Fertilize and water the hell out of it thru the whole process.

7-8 years from now you can have the satisfaction of knowing that you envisioned and then created a tree....and didn't just buy one!

 

[erb.75]

....to be a newb again...everything looks so wonderful! If you are still doing bonsai in five years I suspect you will have a very different appreciation for the quality of trees.

Joe...to achieve the design you want I would do this....
1. Plant the tree in the ground...place the trunk at a 45 degree angle to the ground...at the size it is now making the roots work shouldn't be an issue.
2. At the end of this growing season, or early spring, select one branch that grows up and perpendicular from the main trunk. Let that branch develop as a new leader all of next year....don't worry about any of the other branches...prune to keep them small and avoid large scars on the trunk later.
3. At the end of the second growing season choose a branch for the next segment of trunk....leaving the second sacrifice section to continue growing for a third growing season. Remove unneeded branches but realize that there is a correlation between the number of leaves and vigorous growth.
3a. Use a shovel or saw to cut about a 3-4" radius around the trunk....prop up the cut off pieces of roots to make root cutting...you may need to prune some leaves at this point...timing on this should be Mid to late August.
4. In our climate I would chop where needed around August of third growing season...this will leave enough time for new foliage to develop and harden off before winter
5. Dig and pot, not bonsai pot, beginning of season four....prune, prune, prune to begin creating branches and ramification. For a small tree like this there is little need for sacrifice branches....just start pruning and developing and the branches will thicken as they ramify...it could easily take 2-3 seasons to get really good ramification.

Fertilize and water the hell out of it thru the whole process.

7-8 years from now you can have the satisfaction of knowing that you envisioned and then created a tree....and didn't just buy one!

to be a newb again? I am a learner for sure, but I'm going on year 7 of bonsai. Thanks for the uplifting comment.

 

[erb.75]

....to be a newb again...everything looks so wonderful! If you are still doing bonsai in five years I suspect you will have a very different appreciation for the quality of trees.

Joe...to achieve the design you want I would do this....
1. Plant the tree in the ground...place the trunk at a 45 degree angle to the ground...at the size it is now making the roots work shouldn't be an issue.
2. At the end of this growing season, or early spring, select one branch that grows up and perpendicular from the main trunk. Let that branch develop as a new leader all of next year....don't worry about any of the other branches...prune to keep them small and avoid large scars on the trunk later.
3. At the end of the second growing season choose a branch for the next segment of trunk....leaving the second sacrifice section to continue growing for a third growing season. Remove unneeded branches but realize that there is a correlation between the number of leaves and vigorous growth.
3a. Use a shovel or saw to cut about a 3-4" radius around the trunk....prop up the cut off pieces of roots to make root cutting...you may need to prune some leaves at this point...timing on this should be Mid to late August.
4. In our climate I would chop where needed around August of third growing season...this will leave enough time for new foliage to develop and harden off before winter
5. Dig and pot, not bonsai pot, beginning of season four....prune, prune, prune to begin creating branches and ramification. For a small tree like this there is little need for sacrifice branches....just start pruning and developing and the branches will thicken as they ramify...it could easily take 2-3 seasons to get really good ramification.

Fertilize and water the hell out of it thru the whole process.

7-8 years from now you can have the satisfaction of knowing that you envisioned and then created a tree....and didn't just buy one!

what's wrong with buying good stock?

 

[erb.75]

and just because I can appreciate trees that are not in a state of total perfection doesn't make me a newb

 

[JoeR]

....to be a newb again...everything looks so wonderful! If you are still doing bonsai in five years I suspect you will have a very different appreciation for the quality of trees.

Joe...to achieve the design you want I would do this....
1. Plant the tree in the ground...place the trunk at a 45 degree angle to the ground...at the size it is now making the roots work shouldn't be an issue.
2. At the end of this growing season, or early spring, select one branch that grows up and perpendicular from the main trunk. Let that branch develop as a new leader all of next year....don't worry about any of the other branches...prune to keep them small and avoid large scars on the trunk later.
3. At the end of the second growing season choose a branch for the next segment of trunk....leaving the second sacrifice section to continue growing for a third growing season. Remove unneeded branches but realize that there is a correlation between the number of leaves and vigorous growth.
3a. Use a shovel or saw to cut about a 3-4" radius around the trunk....prop up the cut off pieces of roots to make root cutting...you may need to prune some leaves at this point...timing on this should be Mid to late August.
4. In our climate I would chop where needed around August of third growing season...this will leave enough time for new foliage to develop and harden off before winter
5. Dig and pot, not bonsai pot, beginning of season four....prune, prune, prune to begin creating branches and ramification. For a small tree like this there is little need for sacrifice branches....just start pruning and developing and the branches will thicken as they ramify...it could easily take 2-3 seasons to get really good ramification.

Fertilize and water the hell out of it thru the whole process.

7-8 years from now you can have the satisfaction of knowing that you envisioned and then created a tree....and didn't just buy one!

Thanks for the awesome and very convenient advice John. I actually cut a corner of the roots off in preparation for going in the ground tomorrow. It was mostly soil and very few roots.

Tomorrow I need to decide where to put it. I should put it in a place that gets full sun right? I dont have a growing bed yet but I have some places I can put it along with some tridents that Im growing out. Maybe mix some soil conditioner in it too.

I also need to face it in the right direction so the trunk gets good sun for back budding.